[Alumni-chat] real estate

Mon Feb 18 20:09:15 EST 2008

You're missing it entirely.

Clark might work well with politicians.  He is one.  He can make friends with wellstone sure whatever... He also kissed some other asses:

"And I'm very glad we've got the great team in office, men like Colin 
    Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice... people I know very 
    well - our president George W. Bush. We need them there." - Clark in 
    remarks delivered at the Pulaski County GOP Lincoln Day Dinner in Little Rock, 
    Arkansas on May 11, 2001
What do other Generals think of him?

Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf appeared 
  on CNBC's Capital Report, hosted by Gloria Borger and Alan Murray, who asked 
  him what he thought of Clark. "I think the greatest condemnation against 
  him . . . came from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when he was a 
  NATO commander. I mean, he was fired as a NATO commander," Schwarzkopf 
  replied, "and when Hugh Shelton said he was fired because of matters of 
  character and integrity, that is a very, very damning statement, which says, 
  `If that's the case, he's not the right man for president,' as far as I'm concerned."

retired Gen. Hugh Shelton was 
    asked if he would support retired Gen. Wesley Clark for president, Shelton, 
    the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, quickly took a drink of 
    water. "That question makes me wish it were vodka," Shelton said. 
    "I've known Wes for a long time. I will tell you the reason he came out 
    of Europe early had to do with integrity and character issues, things that 
    are very near and dear to my heart. I'm not going to say whether I'm a Republican 
    or a Democrat. I'll just say Wes won't get my vote."
"There are an awful lot of people," a retired four-star general told 
  the Washington Post, "who believe Wes will tell anybody what they want 
  to hear and tell somebody the exact opposite five minutes later." ...

Anyway... About those war crimes....  Yes, as SACEUR he carried out NATO political directives.  His directives were to end the Kosovar conflict.  He did so by high altititude bombing without risking American lives and without a ground war because he didnt want to deal with the casualties.  Also because the Serbs would have out Generaled him.  The Army dumbed down the OPFOR qualifications to let him pass.

His own Statements on why he carried out terror bombing in violation of the laws of warfare:

  NATO justified the bombing of the Belgrade TV station, saying it was a legitimate 
  military target. "We've struck at his TV stations and transmitters because 
  they're as much a part of his military machine prolonging and promoting this 
  conflict as his army and security forces," U.S. General Wesley Clark explained--"his," 
  of course, referring to Yugoslavian President Slobodan Milosevic. It wasn't 
  Milosevic, however, who was killed when the Belgrade studios were bombed on 
  April 23, but rather 20 journalists, technicians and other civilians. 

In order to ensure respect for and protection of the civilian
population and civilian objects, the Parties to the conflict shall at
all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants
and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly
shall direct their operations only against military objectives.

When you talk about about limited bombing take this quote:

Like it or not, we are at war with the Serbian nation (the Serbs
certainly think so), and the stakes have to be very clear: Every week
you ravage Kosovo is another decade we will set your country back by
pulverizing you. You want 1950? We can do 1950. You want 1389? We can
do 1389 too.

But hey... he charmed a politician you liked and gave some nice speeches in Pittsburgh...  Sloppy e-blowjobs for him... lets make him President of Antioch.  Because a college committed to social justice needs an Arogrant General who is a fucking war criminal... 

Maybe he'll carry out that purge you always wanted.

God.. you get more crazy every day Sally... I swear?  Whats next... George Wallace for head of African American studies?

----G

"We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." 
----Durruti

> From: Sistersara at aol.com
> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:51:26 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] real estate
> To: alumni-chat at w3.antioch.edu
> 
> In a message dated 2/18/2008 10:32:41 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
> gerrybello at hotmail.com writes:
> 
> Wesley  Clark is totally not appropriate for Antioch.
> 
> His reputation as an  egomanical gas bag was legendary IN the Military.
> Not as I understand the situation.  My source was perhaps the most  anti-War 
> Senator in the US Senate at the time, Paul Wellstone, who as a member  of the 
> Senate Foreign Relations Committee, got to know Clark while on a mission  to 
> Belgrad, prior to the bombing campaign in Bosnia.  They became friends,  Clark 
> cut him in on the progress of the efforts regarding Bosnia, and the  progress 
> in the Dayton Talks.  Paul had huge reasons for wanting first Bush  I and then 
> Clinton to take action, as perhaps the 2nd largest population of  people from 
> Yugoslavia in the US live on the Iron Rang -- and they were pressing  him 
> from before he was elected to end the genocide.  His opinion of Clark  -- before 
> Clinton brought Clark in, everyone was just spinning wheels, State,  DoD, and 
> all the rest.  Clark and his team brought the EU together with a  scale up of 
> effort to reach a solution, the last option of which was the limited  bombing 
> campaign.  And yes, it ended the genocide in Bosnia with an  agreement 
> enforceable by NATO plus the Russians.  Clark was staff with the  Joint Chiefs at the 
> time.  From that point on, Wellstone and Clark became  good friends, 
> Eventually Paul took him to an old labor hall where Paul had been  invited to speak 
> near Pittsburgh, mostly 2nd and 3rd generation retired steel  workers of 
> Yugoslav extraction, -- object, to get around the paid lobbyists  representing the 
> different interests (Serb, Croatian, Bosnian, etc) in DC -- and  Paul said it 
> was brilliant, he laid out all the factions, all the reasons why  inaction had 
> been the state of things during the Bush I and the first two years  of the 
> Clinton Administration, and then piece by piece laid out the plans and  then took 
> every question that was raised.  Of course no one liked the  bombing -- but 
> that was Milosevic's choice as he had been told exactly what the  steps in 
> escalation would be.  Milosevic selected bombing because that gave  him cover 
> politically in Serbia.  Kosovo is a somewhat different story but  with most of the 
> same cast of characters.  
> 
> 
> 
> When he held the post of SACUER (Supreme Allied Commander -  Europe, same job 
> as Eisenhower in WWII, basically commanding General of Nato)  his own staff 
> refered to him derisively as the "Supreme Being".
> 
> If you  thought Steve Lawry was an unaproachable authoritarian you'll love 
> this  gasbag.
> 
> oh... and he bombed civilians in Yugoslavia.
> Yes, Clark did this, under NATO Command.  Generals do not just go out  and 
> bomb someone willy nelly, they follow the chain of Command, and as SACUR, he  
> was under the NATO Council, and ultimately responsible to his own Commander in  
> Chief -- Bill Clinton.  
>  
> The primary reason NATO came to the aid of the Albanian Kosovar's was  
> intelligence indicating that what we now know as al-Qaeda had put a fairly large  
> number of operatives into Kosovo and Albania with interests in setting the  
> region up for something like Afghanistan.  The reason the EU came together  as it 
> did was because they all contributed to gathering and analysis of the  
> intelligence, and none wanted an al-Qaeda base in the Balkins.  Most of the  fighters 
> were European residents/citizens, and they were quietly returned to  their 
> countries...but they were led by Arabs associated with al-Qaeda.  The  whole 
> point of doing Kosovo the way it was done was to remove the Arab fighters  from 
> the scene, and guarentee Kosovar's security via return of Serb troops to  
> barracks -- something Milosevic refused to do even knowing that the result would  
> be another, and more extensive bombing campaign.  He continued his ethnic  
> cleansing campaign.  
>  
> The big mistake Clinton and the EU made here was not to make public the  role 
> the vets of Afghanistan were playing in Kosovo -- it might have clarified  
> things that needed clarification.  The Russians suffered from it too, as  many 
> then in Kosovo moved on to Chechnya.  Things were not all that clear  at the 
> time of Bosnia -- but by the time of Kosovo the scope of the problems  were 
> quite clear, and there was EU and NATO agreement to remove the threat  likely to 
> cause a much broader Balkan civil war.  The problem is still  potentially 
> serious, but my hopes are Bush will keep his fists out of it.   Serbia and the EU 
> have many common interests, and with much diplomacy and  carrots and sticks, I 
> suspect things could work out if the world is lucky.  
>  
> Anyhow, I think Clark did an excellent job as SACUR in this instance -- a  
> very complex one that required keeping all sorts of pieces working together  
> toward and end to random killing of civilians.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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