[Alumni-chat] Antioch 2.0

[Robert Abrams]

Jonah: Are you by any chance related to Otmar Liebert, the musician? I first heard his music in a little cafe in Old San Juan. He plays new age flamenco.

AVE ATQUE VALE  (Hail and farewell-the gladiator's salutation)


-----Original Message-----
From: Jonah Liebert
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 4:49 PM
To: Alumni Chat List
Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch 2.0

Dear Scott,

I've heard your classes are excellent, and I am sorry I never got to take
one.  You always struck me as a nice person.

I suppose that you, like many Antiochians here, do not feel there is
anything that needs to be changed regarding any of Antioch's core C's
(classroom, community, co-op), so why fix it? Why have a vision if nothing
is wrong?  If it ain't broke don't fix it, right?  All we need to do is
raise money, separate from the University and move on doing what we did,
right?  After all, isn't all this mess attributable to nefarious university
leadership?  Is that the basic point of view of you and Bob Devine and most
others on here?

I disagree.  I've already posted my critique and won't do so again here (see
Antioch Failed thread).  I believe there are some or many who also would
agree with some of my criticisms.  I think a vision for Antioch 2.0 is
paramount to moving forward effectively.  Since asking for a plan is somehow
detrimental to "saving Antioch," I'll say no more but this: if anyone would
ever like to define a vision of Antioch 2.0, please get in touch with me and
I'll be delighted to help.

All the best,

Jonah Liebert '03

On 6/28/07, Scott Warren <warren at antioch-college.edu> wrote:
>
> Dear Jonah,
>
> Well, I've had so many students (thousands) during the past 12 years in
> classes, independent studies, senior projects, and conversations, that I
> can't always keep them straight.  I do know that you and I had
> conversations together.  I only use the terms negative and angry when I
> perceive comments to be negative and angry, which I continue to do in your
> reply.  I simply don't see the same Antioch you see, and I'll leave it at
> that.
>
> Truly no more posts from me that aren't directed toward saving this
> wonderful College.  I've taught at 7 colleges (including rich,
> "prestigious" ones like Pomona College) and universities during my 31-year
> career, and I've never seen one that offers the special kind of high
> quality  educational experience that Antioch does, or one that attracts
> the most remarkable students I have ever known during those 31 years.
>
> Last thought:  Jonah, I typically have some of the largest classes on
> campus (as many as 70 students a semester), many of whom disagree with me,
> and guess what?  They love the classes.  So I guess I'm not too terrible
> and nasty to them.!
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> Alumni Chat List <alumni-chat at w3.antioch.edu> on Thursday, June 28, 2007
> at 9:57 AM  wrote:
>
>
> >Dear Scott,
> >
> >There was much that I loved about my Antioch education, and I would not
> >have
> >stayed there had I not loved it.  And I do not regret having gone there
> >even
> >though, as Young noted, it has a terrible reputation outside of the
> >Bubble.
> >I'm currently attending a prestigious Ph.D. program, and I think my
> >Antioch
> >education prepared me relatively well in many areas (not all) to
> >effectively
> >compete with my colleagues.  Many of my friends who graduated from
> Antioch
> >are also doing interesting things.
> >
> >So you ask what happened?  If, as so many folks on this forum are doing,
> I
> >were to angrily and negatively rip into the University leadership, would
> >you
> >still ask what happened?  I wonder why do you not address a single
> >question
> >(of the many) that I asked in my post?
> >
> >Ultimately, there are a series of CRITICAL (not angry or negative, yes,
> >there is a difference) issues that I tried to raise, which I feel are
> >being
> >swept under the rug in the pursuit of the futile goal of separation from
> >the
> >University.  Separation seems useful, but we need a clear vision of what
> >we
> >hope to accomplish beyond separation.  Perhaps some folks think nothing
> is
> >wrong except the University leadership.  I disagree completely and tried
> >to
> >raise the aspects of an Antioch education that I think ought to be
> >improved.
> >
> >By the way, Scott, is calling someone angry and negative always your
> >response when someone asks critical questions?   Do you do that in your
> >classes when students raise issues you don't like or don't agree
> with?  Or
> >were you trying  to discredit me?  It is a very mature approach for a
> >professor to take (sarcasm).
> >
> >So, I'll try again, and this time I'll make it shorter.
> >
> >The main overall question I posed is what do we want Antioch 2.0 to look
> >like?  This is an absolute priority now; there are only so many
> idealistic
> >donors who will give blindly to the "keep Antioch alive" idea.  Also,
> each
> >day we let this question slip, someone else is going to define a vision
> of
> >our future college for us.  Yes, Scott, it does anger me that we do not
> >have
> >even a semblance of a plan as to what a revived Antioch should look like,
> >and yet we are so quick to critique the University's plan.
> >
> >     a.  What should the Co-op program look like?  I argued that it is
> >incoherent, disconnected from the classroom and in complete disarray.
> >
> >     b.  What should the Classroom experience consist of?  I argued that
> >there few academic standards; course content is not regulated; few
> >consistent requirements; haphazard assessment; and no accountability.
> >
> >     c.  How should community governance operate?  I argued that the
> >primary
> >governance model was a witch hunt.
> >
> >     d.  What do we want the physical structures to look like?  I argued
> >that they were trashed and there were few standards regarding how
> >structures
> >should be treated.
> >
> >     e.  What should our drug and alcohol policy be?  I argued that there
> >are drugs and alcohol everywhere, but, unlike other institutions, Antioch
> >does nothing to curb them and visitors readily see that.  This hurts our
> >reputation.
> >
> >All the rest of what I said I'll skip in the name of brevity.
> >
> >I said nothing directly about toxicity.  I don't particularly like the
> >term
> >because, like toxic waste, it suggests a permanence to our internal
> flaws.
> >I do not believe this to be true, unless we are completely unwilling to
> >deal
> >with our internal flaws.  I simply believe that defining a clear vision
> of
> >Antioch 2.0 will do away with the negative cultural aspects.
> >
> >Ultimately, higher education is a business, and no matter how well some
> of
> >us do, we seem to have a poor or terrible brand name.  I think we can
> >improve, but only if we are willing to define a clear vision of what an
> >Antioch education should consist of.   We do not have one now, and we did
> >not have one when I was.  This is not irreparable but must be dealt with.
> >
> >If I am angry and negative for pointing out the obvious, then so be it.
> >I've said what I thought needed to be said.
> >
> >Finally, I never had a class with you, Scott.
> >
> >Best,
> >
> >Jonah '03
> >
> >On 6/27/07, Scott Warren <warren at antioch-college.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Jonah,
> >>
> >> I'm frankly surprised and disappointed by your anger and negativity.
> >> Since you took courses with me, and we had many good conversations, you
> >> always gave me the impression that you were enjoying your educational
> >> experience.  We had some great intellectual exhcanges, and you were
> >always
> >> positive and excited.  What happened?  I'm so sorry you feel this way
> >now.
> >>
> >> best,
> >>
> >> Scott
> >>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Antioch College Alumni-chat mailing list
Alumni-chat at w3.antioch.edu
http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat