From bobabramspe at webtv.net Sun Jun 3 08:29:01 2007 From: bobabramspe at webtv.net (Robert Abrams) Date: Sun Jun 3 08:41:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Patrick Cates Problems with Antioch Message-ID: Speaking as an alum and frequent lurker on this list I'd like to add my two cents. I wholehearted hope that the new curriculum succeeds. I have my doubts that it will, but I am withholding judgement until the results are in this fall when the retention rate of the first year students enrolled becomes known. Anything less than 80% will be an indication of trouble. Best Wishes to all, Bob Abrams '50 AVE ATQUE VALE (Hail and farewell-the gladiator's salutation) -----Original Message----- From: ktj71@juno.com Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:37 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Patrick Cates Problems with Antioch With a PhD in Higher-Ed research, Ive spent ridiculous amounts of time & effort tracking poor old AC -- sometimes on salary, sometimes not. In Nov 04 I dropped out of the old alumni-chat because, as I said then, chances of turning [AC] into a marketable (to say nothing of selective) baccalaureate program seem very slim. IMHO thats still true, but who wants to chat about it and why? -- theres a bean-counter question. From Gare Calhouns 3/15/07 post thru the 5/21 Cates/ Bower/ Devine exchange, I kept a fairly complete record. Gares data are probably better, but here are a few things I noted: The 3/15/07 chatlist population = about 222: 155 regular chatters, 65 digest subscribers, & 1 or 2 new. (Wonder if it has grown or shrunk?) By 5/21/07 I counted 42 participants, leaving 180 lurkers. A dozen or so happily joined in the 1st or 2nd day; then it quieted down. At least 12 of the 42 had a current institutional role besides alum: G.Calhoun; J.Robinson; B.Winslow; B.Devine; Duffy; R.Grimes; M.Jensen; M.Brower; A.Maruyama; E.Miller; D.Patterson; C.Feuerstein. Frequency of posting varied from once (21 people) to 15 times (1 person). These are rough hand-counts, but heres my array: 28 = 67% = once or twice 8 = 19% = 3 times 3 = 7% = 4 or 5 times 0 = 6, 7, 8, or 9 times 3 = 7% = 10, 14 & 15 times (1 each) Personally, my interest in this somewhat repetitive dialogue among so few of us has dwindled. I thoroughly enjoyed Patrick Cates playful jab at the new new curriculum, and was dismayed by the puritanical replies he got. Sure, the Faculty has already spent 3 years (so far!) trying to implement (i.e., to fix!) a weird Curric mandated by the BOT and its hand-picked Renewal experts (including June Jervis, fmr prez of Evergreen) back in June 04. Yes, Faculty modifications have helped. But in studies from the 40s right thru the 90s, ACs main draw was co-op; and much of what results from Renewal seems to be less co-op and a smaller student body. While Im posting, a tardy reply to Mike Brower who in March wrote: << ...solution is NOT to divorce Antioch College from what is left of the University system. (Sorry Katy Jako, I know that some years ago, when the University was much more vast and sprawling, you advocated this.) Today the other University branches (there are only 5 others left!) subsidize Antioch College and without them we would close tomorrow.>> I advocate reorganizing, not divorce. Antioch has always been ONE degree-granting institution. In 77 all units belonged to AC; in 78 they (PLUS the college) belonged to the Network, which the BOT re-named AU. I worked for AU from 85-6 into 92-3 when only 3 campuses existed outside of YS: NE, SoCA, Seattle. In Aug 96 I started Antioch Independence Fund when AU Chanc Guskin fired AC Pres. Crowfoot - very ugly. It held almost $1.25 million in Feb 03 when BOT cancelled the meeting where wed planned to discuss the gift. But no, I was out in Berkeley & not paying attention when the Network was vast and sprawling. Katy Jako 54 _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat From marklp2 at comcast.net Sun Jun 3 13:11:39 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (marklp2@comcast.net) Date: Sun Jun 3 13:24:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Patrick Cates Problems with Antioch Message-ID: <060320071711.2839.4662F64B0002A68400000B172207020853CD9F04059D0E03@comcast.net> Mike Brower is right the College would close tomorrow without the subsdies from the five branches (and I'm sure they have very mixed feelings about paying them) I also appreciate what Katy tried to do, though, with the Antioch Independence Fund. As I've said over and over the longer term survival of the college is dependent on reinstituting Arthur Morgan's vision of an entrepreneurial campus stressing self-sufficiency, community, community governance, co-op, and a true fusion of vocationally oriented and liberal arts education. Morgan's vision ultimately failed (to be replaced by Algo Henderson's similar vision which omitted that last category) because of his problems with compromise, faculty resistance to his ideas about entrepreneurship, and because society diverged from his vision of the small entrepreneur and the small community. Society and Antioch grads interests went in the direction of big corporations and new social service bureaucracies. Now with renewed emphasis on relocalization, the local economy, social entrepreneurship, corporate social responsibility, etc. all directed toward the idea of creating a more humanistic globalization reemphasizing community, local participation in governance, fair trade etc. the time is ripe for Morgan's ideas. Even more so than in 1930. For God's sake, we have the legacy and the history, it's in the Antioch genes. Let's take advantage of it. Mark P. '71 -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Robert Abrams" > Speaking as an alum and frequent lurker on this list I'd like to add my two > cents. I wholehearted hope that the new curriculum succeeds. I have my doubts > that it will, but I am withholding judgement until the results are in this fall > when the retention rate of the first year students enrolled becomes known. > Anything less than 80% will be an indication of trouble. Best Wishes to all, > Bob Abrams '50 > > AVE ATQUE VALE (Hail and farewell-the gladiator's salutation) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ktj71@juno.com > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:37 PM > To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Patrick Cates Problems with Antioch > > > > With a PhD in Higher-Ed research, Ive spent ridiculous amounts of time & effort > tracking poor old AC -- sometimes on salary, sometimes not. In Nov 04 I dropped > out of the old alumni-chat because, as I said then, chances of turning [AC] into > a marketable (to say nothing of selective) baccalaureate program seem very slim. > IMHO thats still true, but who wants to chat about it and why? -- theres a > bean-counter question. > > From Gare Calhouns 3/15/07 post thru the 5/21 Cates/ Bower/ Devine > exchange, I kept a fairly complete record. Gares data are probably better, but > here are a few things I noted: > > The 3/15/07 chatlist population = about 222: 155 regular chatters, 65 > digest subscribers, & 1 or 2 new. (Wonder if it has grown or shrunk?) > > By 5/21/07 I counted 42 participants, leaving 180 lurkers. A dozen or so > happily joined in the 1st or 2nd day; then it quieted down. > > At least 12 of the 42 had a current institutional role besides alum: > G.Calhoun; J.Robinson; B.Winslow; B.Devine; Duffy; R.Grimes; M.Jensen; > M.Brower; A.Maruyama; E.Miller; D.Patterson; C.Feuerstein. > > Frequency of posting varied from once (21 people) to 15 times (1 person). > These are rough hand-counts, but heres my array: > 28 = 67% = once or twice > 8 = 19% = 3 times > 3 = 7% = 4 or 5 times > 0 = 6, 7, 8, or 9 times > 3 = 7% = 10, 14 & 15 times (1 each) > > Personally, my interest in this somewhat repetitive dialogue among so few > of us has dwindled. I thoroughly enjoyed Patrick Cates playful jab at the new > new curriculum, and was dismayed by the puritanical replies he got. Sure, the > Faculty has already spent 3 years (so far!) trying to implement (i.e., to fix!) > a weird Curric mandated by the BOT and its hand-picked Renewal experts > (including June Jervis, fmr prez of Evergreen) back in June 04. Yes, Faculty > modifications have helped. But in studies from the 40s right thru the 90s, ACs > main draw was co-op; and much of what results from Renewal seems to be less > co-op and a smaller student body. > > While Im posting, a tardy reply to Mike Brower who in March wrote: > > << ...solution is NOT to divorce Antioch College from what is left of the > University system. (Sorry Katy Jako, I know that some years ago, when the > University was much more vast and sprawling, you advocated this.) Today the > other University branches (there are only 5 others left!) subsidize Antioch > College and without them we would close tomorrow.>> > > I advocate reorganizing, not divorce. Antioch has always been ONE > degree-granting institution. In 77 all units belonged to AC; in 78 they (PLUS > the college) belonged to the Network, which the BOT re-named AU. > I worked for AU from 85-6 into 92-3 when only 3 campuses existed outside > of YS: NE, SoCA, Seattle. In Aug 96 I started Antioch Independence Fund when > AU Chanc Guskin fired AC Pres. Crowfoot - very ugly. It held almost $1.25 > million in Feb 03 when BOT cancelled the meeting where wed planned to discuss > the gift. But no, I was out in Berkeley & not paying attention when the Network > was vast and sprawling. Katy Jako 54 > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat From jkrains at comcast.net Sun Jun 3 16:50:58 2007 From: jkrains at comcast.net (John K Rains) Date: Sun Jun 3 17:03:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Return to Morgan Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070603162042.014a0b60@comcast.net> As a long time lurker and only occasional participant I feel compelled to say amen to Marks last post. We engineer types never learned to express our ideas as fluently as those I have been reading lately but we can understand and appreciate them when properly presented. Let's return to original basics. In the little time I have left, I would, once again, love to feel proud of Antioch. Yes, it must be in our genes. John Rains '42-50 From mbrower32 at comcast.net Mon Jun 4 09:00:31 2007 From: mbrower32 at comcast.net (Michael Brower) Date: Mon Jun 4 09:04:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason for Attrition Message-ID: Yesterday Bob Abrams '50 posted: "I wholehearted hope that the new curriculum succeeds. I have my doubts that it will, but I am withholding judgement until the results are in this fall when the retention rate of the first year students enrolled becomes known. Anything less than 80% will be an indication of trouble." Bob, I agree that we need to raise retention rates, and ideally get them up to, and then above, 80%. However, I think it is wrong to blame the first year curriculum if retention does not go up fast enough or high enough. I have interviewed many students at the Caf in recent years, and the Administration has done some studies too. And in my view the overwhelming reason why students leave has nothing to do with the first year curriculum, which the vast majority of first year students I talked with really liked and approved of. Instead, I was told that the major reason students leave is lack of enough faculty, lack of faculty depth, in various academic fields, as students look ahead to picking and creating and studying in a self- designed major. They do not like looking ahead to 3 more years with only one biologist, only one sociologist, only one psychologist, etc., etc. (I name these fields just as examples; I do not know if currently Antioch has more than one faculty member in any of these specific fields). We have here a vicious circle, which could and can be turned into a positive circle. We need to do four things simultaneously, each of which will help the others: 1. Raise more money. 2. Attract more students. 3. Hire more faculty. 4. Reduce attrition and hold more students. The first year curriculum has nothing to do with any of these, except perhaps in No. 2, attracting students. And so far, I think it has helped and not hurt in attracting students, and perhaps also in reducing attrition, and maybe also in raising more money. By the way, the faculty has recently taken action to make the new first year cross disciplinary core courses ONLY in the first semester of the Freshman year. So students can begin in the spring term taking more discipline-focussed courses and designing their majors. We Alumni can help a great deal, and make a lot of difference, in both raising more money and attracting more students. When this happens, it will enable hiring more faculty and that will result in reducing attrition. -- Mike Brower '55 From bobabramspe at webtv.net Mon Jun 4 09:18:38 2007 From: bobabramspe at webtv.net (Robert Abrams) Date: Mon Jun 4 09:31:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason for Attrition Message-ID: I suggest that along with anecdotal interviews with first year students who like the new curriculum it may be of value to try a more formal exit poll all of those who do not return. In this way the reasons for their leaving can be addressed so as to improve retention and make Antioch more attractive to prospective entering students. An increase in student population would go a long way towards solving other problems, IMHO. Bob '50. AVE ATQUE VALE (Hail and farewell-the gladiator's salutation) -----Original Message----- From: Michael Brower Sent: Monday, June 4, 2007 9:00 AM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Cc: Michael Brower Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason for Attrition Yesterday Bob Abrams '50 posted: "I wholehearted hope that the new curriculum succeeds. I have my doubts that it will, but I am withholding judgement until the results are in this fall when the retention rate of the first year students enrolled becomes known. Anything less than 80% will be an indication of trouble." Bob, I agree that we need to raise retention rates, and ideally get them up to, and then above, 80%. However, I think it is wrong to blame the first year curriculum if retention does not go up fast enough or high enough. I have interviewed many students at the Caf in recent years, and the Administration has done some studies too. And in my view the overwhelming reason why students leave has nothing to do with the first year curriculum, which the vast majority of first year students I talked with really liked and approved of. Instead, I was told that the major reason students leave is lack of enough faculty, lack of faculty depth, in various academic fields, as students look ahead to picking and creating and studying in a self- designed major. They do not like looking ahead to 3 more years with only one biologist, only one sociologist, only one psychologist, etc., etc. (I name these fields just as examples; I do not know if currently Antioch has more than one faculty member in any of these specific fields). We have here a vicious circle, which could and can be turned into a positive circle. We need to do four things simultaneously, each of which will help the others: 1. Raise more money. 2. Attract more students. 3. Hire more faculty. 4. Reduce attrition and hold more students. The first year curriculum has nothing to do with any of these, except perhaps in No. 2, attracting students. And so far, I think it has helped and not hurt in attracting students, and perhaps also in reducing attrition, and maybe also in raising more money. By the way, the faculty has recently taken action to make the new first year cross disciplinary core courses ONLY in the first semester of the Freshman year. So students can begin in the spring term taking more discipline-focussed courses and designing their majors. We Alumni can help a great deal, and make a lot of difference, in both raising more money and attracting more students. When this happens, it will enable hiring more faculty and that will result in reducing attrition. -- Mike Brower '55 _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat From robinsimons at yahoo.com Mon Jun 4 11:18:46 2007 From: robinsimons at yahoo.com (Robin Simons) Date: Mon Jun 4 11:31:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Problems with alumni section of website, who do I contact In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <711870.19978.qm@web31607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am trying to look up an alum who graduated in 54. When I press the 50's section, I get the 60s. When I press the 40's, I get the 50's. The person's not listed on the list under their graduation year, and when I press their name, when I do a specific search for them, they come up but there's no contact info in the file! That's a problem. Robin '91 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz From mary.bennett at gmail.com Mon Jun 4 13:15:04 2007 From: mary.bennett at gmail.com (mary bennett) Date: Mon Jun 4 13:27:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: Alumni-chat Digest, Vol 4, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: <20070604133126.7C7F15FF3FD8@w3.antioch.edu> References: <20070604133126.7C7F15FF3FD8@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: Hi, First of all, let's channel some of that student ingenuity and resourcefulness and figure out a way to automatically delete the previous "talk" so sending a message is easier, and reading responses is less onerous. Let's get some computer savvy students to work on this; it might save chat from the weight of its own messages. I am a lurker too. I entered Antioch in the summer of 1968. I was from Idaho, and I would never have chosen Antioch if it were not for the romantic allure of co-op. A recent graduate (1966) told me stories of his co-op jobs and adventures that led me to put Antioch at the top of my list of colleges. So as important as curriculum is, we have to ask, what do high school students want, what makes Antioch stand out? Looking back, I had fantastic faculty, Louis Filler and Nolan Miller, to name a few. But I don't look back to the classes in my memories, though they were not unimportant; I remember my co-ops. I don't even pretend to understand the complexities of the current debate, but I loved Antioch, and I give money when I can. Good luck to Antioch. Mary Bennett, class of 1972 (got out a year early in the big credit flurry of the early 70's) From afrye at bwsys.net Mon Jun 4 16:21:17 2007 From: afrye at bwsys.net (Ann Frye) Date: Mon Jun 4 16:34:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: Alumni-chat Digest, Vol 4, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: <20070604133126.7C7F15FF3FD8@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: <4664743D.9060804@bwsys.net> > Looking back, I had fantastic > faculty, Louis Filler and Nolan Miller, to name a few. But I don't > look back > to the classes in my memories, though they were not unimportant; I > remember > my co-ops. I agree. It was the co-op program that drew me, and that I remember best, although I really had some excellent classes from excellent faculty. Concerning the depth of the faculty, a friend who, with her husband, had graduated from a really tiny college in Iowa, told me that "the math department was just Miss ...., so when you wanted to learn something you asked her and she taught you." The flexibility of Antioch allowed a similar solution, although I believe that when I was there ('56 - '61) you needed to get 6 students together to request a special class. Advanced students who want a particular class can, after all, do most of the research for teaching themselves; they need the faculty member for guidance. My brother, who taught geology at Old Dominion, did the same thing, telling the students that if they wanted a class that was not part of the regular curriculum, he would no teaching and no preparation. THEY would have to do it all. Is this approach no longer available? If it is available, do first year students not realize it? Ann Frye From rbchadwick at msn.com Mon Jun 4 17:44:19 2007 From: rbchadwick at msn.com (Robert Chadwick) Date: Mon Jun 4 17:57:08 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: Co-op and Curriculum In-Reply-To: <4664743D.9060804@bwsys.net> Message-ID: I'm also a lurker who went to Antioch in the 1980s primarily for it's co-op program. In my opinion, it gave me a tremendous advantage when I first applied to graduate school and for getting jobs later. Actually having work experience is a almost a necessity for obtaining a job. Some of the co-ops I had were outstanding. _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i’m Initiative now. It’s free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_June07 From eayres at comcast.net Mon Jun 4 18:02:53 2007 From: eayres at comcast.net (E. Daniel Ayres) Date: Mon Jun 4 18:15:52 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] New Curriculum and Co-Op.... Message-ID: <002d01c7a6f4$1bf39dd0$6400a8c0@SVC1> My impression of the "current situation" is that the co-op component of the Antioch College curriculum has never recovered from the abolishment of the 4 quarter calendar. Back when my freshman class entered Antioch College (I believe still the largest entering class in the history of the college, the year was 1960 ) there were jobs which were regularly filled for the entire year because the calendar supported the employer's need to have certain jobs "filled" on a continuous basis. Now, I believe, a lot of the co-ops are not "real jobs" in the sense that many of the jobs I either took or considered were. The curriculum when I was a student required as many quarters of co-op as it required quarters of on-campus study. The problem of taking 5 years to get an undergraduate degree when other schools offered one in four was an "issue" but I didn't see that many students leaving just to graduate a year sooner. Back in the 1960's, I was actually able to earn a significant portion of the difference between my scholarship and quarterly tuition by taking "money jobs" when I had the chance, or going "own plans" to take advantage of an opportunity to work in a place where I wanted to spend a quarter. From what little contact I've had with current students, I get the impression that "money jobs" are a thing of the past, as are most "real world employee" type situations. It was the Co-op program that made the difference for me when I had to make a decision about where to go to college, and I believe I actually learned the things that "made a difference" to me, on the job, not so much in the classroom. My "career" as a computer application implementation specialist certainly did not come from the published curriculum of early 1960's Antioch. A small group of us actually recruited a research employee at Fels Research Institute to offer a class in computer programming back in 1961, a training need which was identified "on the job" in my case. That one class became the foundation for my "career" helping make computers do things other people wanted to get done but didn't know quite how to accomplish. I'll never forget the hundred dollars a day consulting fees I was able to pull down back in 1966 and 1967 when that was a LOT of money for a graduate student on a stipend. It would not have been possible without my co-op experiences and the way that they pushed me toward learning more about computing. E. Daniel Ayres, AKA ZundapMan 734-395-9141 (cell) 734-434-9694 (home) http://home.comcast.net/~eayres From Sistersara at aol.com Wed Jun 6 02:54:14 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 6 03:06:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason for Attrition Message-ID: In a message dated 6/4/2007 7:52:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mbrower32@comcast.net writes: We have here a vicious circle, which could and can be turned into a positive circle. We need to do four things simultaneously, each of which will help the others: 1. Raise more money. 2. Attract more students. 3. Hire more faculty. 4. Reduce attrition and hold more students. Sadly this is still thinking inside the box. Before Antioch Chat went dead a few years back, I proposed a different solution -- namely find someone to be the "leader" who understands the rebuilding mandate. Find someone as creative as Morgan was when he "invented" co-op back in the 1920's but who is not an Antiochian and thus not trying to re-create the precise past. My suggestion then and now was to hire Retired General Wesley Clark as President. The guy says in his book, "Fighting Modern Wars" that he really would like to be President of a small Liberal Arts College -- and I take him at his word. First in his class at West Point, a Rhodes Scholar, advanced work at the National Defense University, Army War College and Georgetown, Teaching at Georgetown and West Point (economics) and several other places, he actually is probably over qualified. But he could attract students, probably an interesting assortment of faculty on the odd principles of Morgan, and he would also be an asset raising money. His speciality in the military was taking the worst battalion and turning it around -- and I think those talents are what is needed in YSO and at Antioch right now. (By the way the person who turned me on to Wes Clark was Senator Paul Wellstone. Paul and I had been friends for years before he ran for the Senate, and I worked hard on his campaign in 1990. Our conversation about Clark was part of a long conversation about Bosnia and Serbia -- the upshot of it being that Paul developed a ragged trust in Clark, which was difficult on many levels.) Antiochians need to get serious about what the loss of our school could mean -- and I mean the loss of the Horace Mann and Morgan legacy. Patchwork and band-aids will not do. We need to only look at how Pat Robertson's little law school took over the Department of Justice and much of the rest of the Bush Administration, and how that new College, Patrick Henry, that is oriented toward totally home schooled right wingers who want Government Jobs is flourishing, to understand why it is necessary to re-hab Antioch, and that old thinking about how to do this probably will contribute to the death of the place. Yes, at the 1966 White House Conference Banquet Dinner, the head table was nearly half Antiochians -- but look at what the current DOJ is doing to what was once won. Hang down you're head Tom Dooley........ Antioch needs to declare victory with regard to the old co-op plan. Yes, I too remember all my jobs, and except for one, I loved them. But look at any large public university today (and I worked at one with 50 thousand students) and they all sponsor internships and offer academic credit for them -- and encourage students to do two or three during their degree program. Look -- We Won that Idea!!! We can still have that option, without keeping it as a museum piece. The current President of the Minnesota Senate is a former student of mine when I ran an intern program in legislative advocacy back in the early 1970's, and way back then he was studying Tax Policy and all the organizations doing advocacy on that. (He had long hair in a pigtail back in those days -- today he is perfectly manicured.) About three times a year I remind him to hire a couple of interns so as to pay a little back. (He says, Yes Mama). The point is this is a "won" issue, and unless it is like in the old days when co-op earnings actually supported tuition, room and board, we need to recalculate. Yes, Little Private Liberal Arts Colleges need to be distinctive. But what would that mean in the 21st Century Environment? How do you incorporate the idea that Google or some other engine will eventually have all the books ever published available for a few clicks (who will care what kind of library you have?) and that one will be able to buy on DVD's the great lectures on any subject or interest. If you have not considered Gore's Slide Show on Global Warming in this context -- well consider it. One could do this with any lecture. One can take his slide show and add the whole bibliography and make it interactive. You don't need a red brick college to execute this, and in fact it might be an expense that is not worth the cost unless you have the modern guru's there who will add value. Antioch needs external leadership to execute something like this -- not old and re-constructionist thinking but out of the box thinking. This is why I recommend recruiting a specific 4 Star General of the Army to head the College. I can't think of a move that is more out of form. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From gabe at ideadesign-dc.com Wed Jun 6 08:06:18 2007 From: gabe at ideadesign-dc.com (Gabe) Date: Wed Jun 6 08:18:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason for Attrition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sara, I applaud your suggestion. Clark still harbors hopes of becoming President, but he is the kind of leader the College needs: someone who truly knows how to lead, not just sound politically correct to all parties concerned, but someone who can point them beyond their identity politics to a larger series of individual and collective unities and progressive identities. I ran a business in the Pentagon for 13+ years, writing resumes for retiring senior officers. Many of the finest people I have ever met are wearing US military uniforms, and I say that as a conscientious objector during Vietnam. Gabe Heilig, '65 > > In a message dated 6/4/2007 7:52:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > mbrower32@comcast.net writes: > > We have here a vicious circle, which could and can be turned into a > positive circle. We need to do four things simultaneously, each of > which will help the others: > > 1. Raise more money. > 2. Attract more students. > 3. Hire more faculty. > 4. Reduce attrition and hold more students. > > > > Sadly this is still thinking inside the box. Before Antioch Chat went dead > a few years back, I proposed a different solution -- namely find someone to > be the "leader" who understands the rebuilding mandate. Find someone as > creative as Morgan was when he "invented" co-op back in the 1920's but who is > not > an Antiochian and thus not trying to re-create the precise past. > > My suggestion then and now was to hire Retired General Wesley Clark as > President. The guy says in his book, "Fighting Modern Wars" that he really > would > like to be President of a small Liberal Arts College -- and I take him at his > word. First in his class at West Point, a Rhodes Scholar, advanced work at > the National Defense University, Army War College and Georgetown, Teaching at > Georgetown and West Point (economics) and several other places, he actually > is probably over qualified. But he could attract students, probably an > interesting assortment of faculty on the odd principles of Morgan, and he > would > also be an asset raising money. His speciality in the military was taking > the > worst battalion and turning it around -- and I think those talents are what > is needed in YSO and at Antioch right now. (By the way the person who turned > me on to Wes Clark was Senator Paul Wellstone. Paul and I had been friends > for years before he ran for the Senate, and I worked hard on his campaign in > 1990. Our conversation about Clark was part of a long conversation about > Bosnia and Serbia -- the upshot of it being that Paul developed a ragged > trust in > Clark, which was difficult on many levels.) > > Antiochians need to get serious about what the loss of our school could mean > -- and I mean the loss of the Horace Mann and Morgan legacy. Patchwork and > band-aids will not do. We need to only look at how Pat Robertson's little > law school took over the Department of Justice and much of the rest of the > Bush > Administration, and how that new College, Patrick Henry, that is oriented > toward totally home schooled right wingers who want Government Jobs is > flourishing, to understand why it is necessary to re-hab Antioch, and that > old > thinking about how to do this probably will contribute to the death of the > place. > Yes, at the 1966 White House Conference Banquet Dinner, the head table was > nearly half Antiochians -- but look at what the current DOJ is doing to what > was once won. Hang down you're head Tom Dooley........ > > Antioch needs to declare victory with regard to the old co-op plan. Yes, I > too remember all my jobs, and except for one, I loved them. But look at any > large public university today (and I worked at one with 50 thousand students) > and they all sponsor internships and offer academic credit for them -- and > encourage students to do two or three during their degree program. Look -- > We > Won that Idea!!! We can still have that option, without keeping it as a > museum piece. The current President of the Minnesota Senate is a former > student > of mine when I ran an intern program in legislative advocacy back in the > early 1970's, and way back then he was studying Tax Policy and all the > organizations doing advocacy on that. (He had long hair in a pigtail back in > those > days -- today he is perfectly manicured.) About three times a year I remind > him to hire a couple of interns so as to pay a little back. (He says, Yes > Mama). The point is this is a "won" issue, and unless it is like in the old > days > when co-op earnings actually supported tuition, room and board, we need to > recalculate. > > Yes, Little Private Liberal Arts Colleges need to be distinctive. But what > would that mean in the 21st Century Environment? How do you incorporate the > idea that Google or some other engine will eventually have all the books ever > published available for a few clicks (who will care what kind of library you > have?) and that one will be able to buy on DVD's the great lectures on any > subject or interest. If you have not considered Gore's Slide Show on Global > Warming in this context -- well consider it. One could do this with any > lecture. One can take his slide show and add the whole bibliography and make > it > interactive. You don't need a red brick college to execute this, and in fact > it might be an expense that is not worth the cost unless you have the modern > guru's there who will add value. > > Antioch needs external leadership to execute something like this -- not old > and re-constructionist thinking but out of the box thinking. This is why I > recommend recruiting a specific 4 Star General of the Army to head the > College. I can't think of a move that is more out of form. > > > > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat From christian.feuerstein at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 14:42:15 2007 From: christian.feuerstein at gmail.com (Christian Feuerstein) Date: Wed Jun 6 14:54:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] STILL not too late to donate for the Reunion auction! Message-ID: <45e83e2c0706061142g744b9ae9mffa0df89ab855ae5@mail.gmail.com> Hello all! Been to the Reunion auction web site ( http://www.antioch-college.edu/news/gallery2/v/Alumni/ReunionAuction2007/) lately? See all the nifty things your fellow alums have been donating? You, too, can still--STILL!--donate items for the auction. Just drop an email to me and/or Kristen Pett (klpett@sbcglobal.net) with a description of the item, a photo (as we're getting close to the Reunion), plus your full name, year you graduated Antioch, and your address and phone number. Then be sure to send it to the Office of Institutional Advancement, clearly labeled REUNION AUCTION 2007. Thanks ever so much for all of your time and effort, everyone--let's make this year's auction a rousing success! Best, Christian Feuerstein, Class of '94, Alumni Board Member From duffy at antioch-college.edu Wed Jun 6 14:53:49 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Wed Jun 6 15:05:44 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] STILL not too late to donate for the Reunion auction! In-Reply-To: <45e83e2c0706061142g744b9ae9mffa0df89ab855ae5@mail.gmail.com> References: <45e83e2c0706061142g744b9ae9mffa0df89ab855ae5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello..friends, romans and countrymen.....including Bob Abrams. I plan to donate a couple of nice tie-dyes to the auction. YS makes a great three day getaway. If you have a long weekend to use this is a great place to visit. The campus, The Glen, John Bryan Park the Gorge are all beautiful right now.... Downtown YS has quanit shops and a great small town feel. And at reunion there will be some stimulating events...and the possibility to meet peers or predecessors. You can come to unwind, rewind or get wound up. Duffy From marklp2 at comcast.net Wed Jun 6 17:37:36 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Wed Jun 6 17:49:35 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason forAttrition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008b01c7a882$e6fb9250$0301a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Forwarded from my landsman, Irwin Pomerantz, who seems to be experiencing some problems using the system. Mark Pomerantz '71 __________________________________________________________________________ Re: Bob Abrams' communication and Mike Brower's experiences pertinent to the possible cause-effect relationship between the new curriculum and student non-retention........ The Yellow Springs News (online) had a feature article (March 8, '07, I believe) based on Pres. Steve Lawry's budget for the college, terminations of staff (not faculty), consolidation of certain staff responsibilities. The article included data re: large percentages of students who did not return AFTER their first year under the new "Core Courses" interdisciplinary curriculum or who left the (new) program DURING its second year. Steve mentioned these (very sad, disheartening) numbers during his introductory comments at our Science Advisory Board meeting in YSO on March 23. Also, at the President's house the previous evening (dinner for SAB members) I asked Steve specifically (since I had read the YS News article online before leaving home for the YSO meeting) about whether students intending not to return were interviewed so the college could learn from their decisions (exit polling?). His reply, as I recall, was that yes, students were communicated with and surveyed as! to their reasons for deciding to leave the college. Why not pursue the facts directly with the administration instead of speculating, if you are concerned about this possible cause-effect relationship. Irwin Pomerantz, Class of '57 From ktj71 at juno.com Thu Jun 7 12:19:35 2007 From: ktj71 at juno.com (ktj71@juno.com) Date: Thu Jun 7 12:33:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason for Attriti on Message-ID: <20070607.091935.10650.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Hi Sally -- First off, AU trustees are meeting in Seattle this weekend. Rumors are flying that it could be a momentous meeting -- or not. I hope someone will report to the chatlist -- on their agenda and what [if anything] actually happens. Re: Wesley Clark and “external leadership”: Even if a vacancy occurs, will the present College attract that kind of talent for its unit-presidency? Given AC’s painful 30-yr history with outside authorities (most recently the Renewal Commish), that strikes me as more of a rosy scenario than a realistic expectation. Re: co-op: << The point is this is a "won" issue, and unless it is like in the old days when co-op earnings actually supported tuition, room and board, we need to recalculate.>> You ask what ‘distinctive’ means now (as in Burton Clark’s “The Distinctive College”), with libraries, lectures & red-brick campuses becoming obsolete. But AC’s claim to fame was an educational DESIGN: a 5-yr plan alternating work-&-study = how to deliver a LibArts curriculum. Unlike the occasional professional internship, co-op is (or was) about continuity, jobs, tacit learning, responsibility, growing-up, things like that -- as important to today’s HS-grads as they were 50 years ago. Yes, the world they live in is very different but the human organism from say 17 to 23 or so hasn’t changed much. And AC’s “design” for guiding students through those critical years has lost a lot -- whole fields of study, year-round calendars, “money jobs,” the 5th year, much of its ‘clout’ in decision-making, etc. So what is it that we “won”? -- and does that mean we’re through with it now? Katy Jako '54 From Sistersara at aol.com Thu Jun 7 15:13:09 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Thu Jun 7 15:25:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason for Attriti on Message-ID: In a message dated 6/7/2007 11:22:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time, ktj71@juno.com writes: You ask what ?distinctive? means now (as in Burton Clark?s ?The Distinctive College?), with libraries, lectures & red-brick campuses becoming obsolete. But AC?s claim to fame was an educational DESIGN: a 5-yr plan alternating work-&-study = how to deliver a LibArts curriculum. Unlike the occasional professional internship, co-op is (or was) about continuity, jobs, tacit learning, responsibility, growing-up, things like that -- as important to today?s HS-grads as they were 50 years ago. Yes, the world they live in is very different but the human organism from say 17 to 23 or so hasn?t changed much. And AC?s ?design? for guiding students through those critical years has lost a lot -- whole fields of study, year-round calendars, ?money jobs,? the 5th year, much of its ?clout? in decision-making, etc. So what is it that we ?won ?? -- and does that mean we?re through with it now? Katy Jako '54 Katy -- yea, Hi!!! If I were designing from Scratch in today's environment, The Antioch of the Future would have a quite intense full time first year program. Then depending on major -- and I am a traditionalist, I believe in undergraduate majors and cross disciplinary in Grad School in some fields -- I would have a PD department that would find the Second Year Students real money jobs that they would then hold full time for a year or two. In the meantime, I would design intermediate major courses as well as distribution ones that could be taught interactively. Now one quarter each year, students would return to campus, for a 3 month residential period -- in the sciences where equipment and labs are critical -- perhaps more than one quarter per year. I would then price this more or less bare bones approach so as to undercut much of the market. The key is to use new and emerging technology quite intentionally so as to drive down the cost of the product. This however would not be your typical on line University in the sense of the pop-up ads I constantly get asking me if I want to finish my BA. But by working more or less full time for entry level wages, I suspect students could actually pay for college out of earnings. Just yesterday the U of Minnesota along with a dozen other Universities joined Google, and they have agreed now to put perhaps a million and a half books and periodicals on line -- that's just Minnesota's offering. I take it this round for Google is just Big Ten Universities or similar sized places. The estimated cost to the U of scanning in all this stuff -- it will take five years -- will be about 150,000 per year. Google does the work and furnishes the scanners and scanning staff, the University corrects its catalogue and packages up a batch of materials that are taken off site for scanning, and then reshelves them when they return. Access to Google will be world wide and free. (can't beat that price). Google negotiates rights when they can with publishers and rights holders. So full text if Google has rights or it is out of copyright, samples if rights are withheld. Now I am one with the old days of exploring the stacks, and making your little study niche -- but that wasn't free. This will eventually be every book ever printed -- and it will be free and totally searchable. As Broadband gets cheaper, and wi-fi cheaper yet this totally changes costs of resources. I think many aspects of an excellent college education can be reconfigured so as to strip out costs and make use of all these new things. So what about Professors, brilliant young instructors? -- Well, there would always be a community of students in residence for three months, plus the first year students -- but lectures would probably be on DVDs or downloadable, and instructors would spend time in a high tech center meeting with students on line -- in a year or two, probably with interactive video and audio. Faculty could have additional time for research this way, probably fewer committee meetings, and "class meetings" could be time shifted. In the end, I think it would produce much more "cross-disciplinary" study than the normal class-room structure, and I suspect instruction would become far more individualized. So what about Community -- I think it would form in alternative ways. I don't know if you are tied into the Progressive Political Blog world -- I have been for a couple of years -- and I am just amazed how connections and communities build. If anyone doubts -- check out the now annual convention for Daily Kos and see how that community built. We built another community around the trial of Scooter Libby, we have a couple of former judges and some fairly experienced lawyers teaching law as we go along, we have quite a few former Intelligence types, quite a number of political workers, and it isn't just American -- we have Canadians, people from Hong Kong, Ossies, Germans, Italians and several scholars from the middle east who got fascinated with an American Political Trial. And we also have some guys who drive trucks cross country who use Wi-Fi at truck stops to participate. Community happens it seems around anything people feel a bit of passion about. We got Judge Walton in the Libby trial to treat several bloggers as Journalists, thus three seats in the courtroom, and several others in the media room (with Wi-Fi thus live blogging), we took up a collection to send our own journalists to cover -- and thus far two books have come out of a little online conversation that started in July, 2003. And yes, we know principles participate -- Joe Wilson and his former spy wife are around and comment when it is judicious, we know that Pat Fitzgerald was a fairly devoted reader, though he never commented. Keith Olbermann frequently uses bits and pieces out of the blogs for his show -- and yes, John Dean rather regularly comes to visit. And anyone can participate -- for free. Among several blogs we probably have several thousand regular daily readers, and a couple of hundred participants who post. I suspect you can build community like this around many many aspects of what we call disciplines or cross disciplinary foci. No it is not the same as our college experience -- but then we were not faced with going through college and graduating with a hundred thousand dollar loan to pay off. I consider that economic fact of life total abuse of what many of us comprehend as freedom of inquiry. So -- that's my model. In looking at costs I think it could be done for a low average of about 5000 per year which would beat the price of many state schools these days. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From patrick_abroad at yahoo.com Thu Jun 7 17:07:21 2007 From: patrick_abroad at yahoo.com (Patrick Cates) Date: Thu Jun 7 17:19:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason for Attriti on In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <366957.24525.qm@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sara wrote: > Just yesterday the U of Minnesota along with a dozen > other Universities > joined Google, and they have agreed now to put > perhaps a million and a half books > and periodicals on line -- that's just Minnesota's > offering. I take it this > round for Google is just Big Ten Universities or > similar sized places. The > estimated cost to the U of scanning in all this > stuff -- it will take five > years -- will be about 150,000 per year. Google > does the work and furnishes > the scanners and scanning staff, the University > corrects its catalogue and > packages up a batch of materials that are taken off > site for scanning, and then > reshelves them when they return. Access to Google > will be world wide and > free. (can't beat that price). Google negotiates > rights when they can with > publishers and rights holders. So full text if > Google has rights or it is out of > copyright, samples if rights are withheld. Now I > am one with the old days of > exploring the stacks, and making your little study > niche -- but that wasn't > free. This will eventually be every book ever > printed -- and it will be free > and totally searchable. Sara, your enthusiasm for Google's book project is palpable, but I think you've had too much of the kool-aid. As a librarian, I would like to try to inject a little realism into this. Google will scan a lot of books and make them available, but not everything and not for free. Here is why: the majority of printed matter has been published in the last 100 years (hell, 25 years, really) and most of it is under copyright and Google just isn't going to get permission to use it. Period. Search Google books, and you will find that most everything recent isn't available in full text (I've found public domain works on Google that aren't in full text). Companies and people have a lot of money and time invested in their intellectual property and few of them are going to give it away; even Google hasn't said that they'll never charge for it. Even if that wasn't true, a great deal of printed material will never be on Google. There are tens of thousands of libraries just in the U.S. and pretty much all of them have a lesser or greater amount of unique material. Google isn't going to go to every library and scan every item. They'll go to a bunch of large libraries and scan what they have and call it everything. But they'll miss the stuff at Antioch, and at your local public library, and at my library; it may only be a dozen items here or a thousand items there, but go around the world and you're talking about millions of items. And last, students who think that everything worth looking at is on the internet (and there are many) are lazy, lazy, lazy. They do bad research. I don't think Antioch should encourage that. Honestly, the whole thing reminds me of the arguments Al Guskin used to make because he didn't want to pay for the library. You get what you pay for. Patrick Cates '90-something ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ From scoulter at antioch-college.edu Thu Jun 7 17:27:01 2007 From: scoulter at antioch-college.edu (Sandy Coulter) Date: Thu Jun 7 17:39:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason for=?ISO-8859-1?Q? Attriti_?= on In-Reply-To: <366957.24525.qm@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <366957.24525.qm@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Patrick has some good points here. I'd like to add that what it sounds like Google is "creating" already exists, in part, and is available to anyone connected to Antioch. What I am talking about is OPAL/OHIOLink. Through this service - which Joe Cali helped create - students, faculty, staff and administration have access to a great many databases with full text articles as well as e-books and streaming videos. Those books not available full text, are just a few clicks away from being delivered to the Library in two to three days (in most cases). Not all journals are available full text. Journal articles take the same time but we do the ordering for you. No matter how much you depend on the online services, you still need people to maintain the systems and the collections. If you are here for reunion, wander over and see us in the Library. We'd be happy to demonstrate what we have available. Antioch still has one of the best collections of journals and new books arrive all the time. When the accreditation team was here they were amazed at what we had available on the open shelves. Sandy Coulter - staff (still working for that degree) From afrye at bwsys.net Thu Jun 7 17:44:59 2007 From: afrye at bwsys.net (Ann Frye) Date: Thu Jun 7 17:57:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason for Attriti on In-Reply-To: <366957.24525.qm@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <366957.24525.qm@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46687C5B.7020707@bwsys.net> >Here is why: the majority of printed matter has been >published in the last 100 years (hell, 25 years, >really) and most of it is under copyright and Google >just isn't going to get permission to use it. Period. > Search Google books, and you will find that most >everything recent isn't available in full text (I've >found public domain works on Google that aren't in >full text). Companies and people have a lot of money >and time invested in their intellectual property and >few of them are going to give it away; even Google >hasn't said that they'll never charge for it. > >Even if that wasn't true, a great deal of printed >material will never be on Google. There are tens of >thousands of libraries just in the U.S. and pretty >much all of them have a lesser or greater amount of >unique material. Google isn't going to go to every >library and scan every item. They'll go to a bunch of >large libraries and scan what they have and call it >everything. But they'll miss the stuff at Antioch, >and at your local public library, and at my library; >it may only be a dozen items here or a thousand items >there, but go around the world and you're talking >about millions of items. > > A thought on this. My last job before retirement was at the University of Illinois College of Medicine; I'm still listed as an employee, since I occasionally put in a day or so if needed on a project. I want to keep that association because: I have access to the entire U of I online library -- many (most?) journals now publish online, and if the University subscribes to the online journal, I can access these articles. Abstracts are available for all the journals. I expect them to put much of their libraries online. Now. Is it possible for Antioch to form an association with one or more of the larger universities that would permit sharing this resource? Not necessarily free, but at a reduced cost. Also, and I don't think this is peculiar to Illinois, my local library card gives me access to many other library holdings across the state, including colleges and universities, usually without charge. I made extensive use of this last while getting my master's degree, since online journals were not then available. In other words, I think there are creative ways to access information at low cost using the Internet. Don't throw water on the idea without looking for ways to make it work. Ann Frye 56-61 From scoulter at antioch-college.edu Thu Jun 7 18:14:32 2007 From: scoulter at antioch-college.edu (Sandy Coulter) Date: Thu Jun 7 18:26:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason for=?ISO-8859-1?Q? Attriti ?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q? on?= In-Reply-To: <46687C5B.7020707@bwsys.net> References: <366957.24525.qm@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46687C5B.7020707@bwsys.net> Message-ID: Ann - that is exactly what OPAL/OHIOLink is/does. We are full members. > >> >A thought on this. My last job before retirement was at the University >of Illinois College of Medicine; I'm still listed as an employee, since >I occasionally put in a day or so if needed on a project. I want to keep >that association because: I have access to the entire U of I online >library -- many (most?) journals now publish online, and if the >University subscribes to the online journal, I can access these >articles. Abstracts are available for all the journals. I expect them to >put much of their libraries online. Now. Is it possible for Antioch to >form an association with one or more of the larger universities that >would permit sharing this resource? Not necessarily free, but at a >reduced cost. Also, and I don't think this is peculiar to Illinois, my >local library card gives me access to many other library holdings across >the state, including colleges and universities, usually without charge. >I made extensive use of this last while getting my master's degree, >since online journals were not then available. In other words, I think >there are creative ways to access information at low cost using the >Internet. Don't throw water on the idea without looking for ways to make >it work. > >Ann Frye 56-61 > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat From afrye at bwsys.net Thu Jun 7 19:58:22 2007 From: afrye at bwsys.net (Ann Frye) Date: Thu Jun 7 20:10:27 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason for=?ISO-8859-1?Q? Attriti ?= on In-Reply-To: References: <366957.24525.qm@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46687C5B.7020707@bwsys.net> Message-ID: <46689B9E.6010706@bwsys.net> >Ann - that is exactly what OPAL/OHIOLink is/does. We are full members. > > Great. Now, I have a young lady neighbor who will be looking at liberal arts colleges next year (this year the local community college gave her a full ride, so she took that; her father, a friend of mine, says that next year she will be looking at good liberal arts colleges). We have good liberal arts colleges in Illinois -- Knox, Monmouth, Blackburn, and of course all of Chicago. What can I tell her -- and her father -- that would make her consider Antioch? She's a lot like I was at 18 (well, maybe smarter & certainly went to a better high school). But one reason I'm on this list is that I don't know what to tell a prospective student. Ann Frye From Sistersara at aol.com Thu Jun 7 20:52:21 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Thu Jun 7 21:04:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] First Year Curriculum Not Primary Reason for Attriti on Message-ID: In a message dated 6/7/2007 4:07:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time, patrick_abroad@yahoo.com writes: Here is why: the majority of printed matter has been published in the last 100 years (hell, 25 years, really) and most of it is under copyright and Google just isn't going to get permission to use it. According to recent NYTimes articles, and an hour long discussion about this yesterday on local public Radio, apparently Google has acquired rights to stuff beyond 1923 from several major publishers, and is in negotiation with a number of others. It will take time, but apparently what has happened is that google has a search for book for purchase button, (used or new) or is soon to make one, and publishers have discovered that they are really selling back lists and all because segments are up on Google. As it gets fitted with the machinery for single book production -- publishers with old rights and back lists will continue to profit. It turns out that folk who seriously sample a book on line want the paper copy -- and what google enables is the production of a single copy, soft bound, and when bookstores (probably B & N) get fitted out with the machines, any book ever published will be at your local mall. Right now the printing and binding machines cost about 700,000 per, but ramp it up and the investment comes way down. Publishers will no longer be making the mistake of ordering up a million copies of an OJ Simpson Book, only to find that unconvicted, people hate his guts. It will all be "on demand" from a central distributor, and part of the cost will be rights and something for the author. >From my perspective -- as the owner of a large personal library which I read and re-read, one thing that appeals to me is the possibility of selecting the type size of any book I want to read. Gettin Old, Eyes not what they used to be. Remember the days at summer camp when I read Nancy Drews under the covers by Flashlight. Can't do that anymore, and like books with sharp and slightly larger print. The technology makes me the potential book designer, not someone who doesn't appreciate old eyes. I agree -- too many students today do not know how to discriminate sources given the internet. That is something they should be taught, perhaps in about the 7th or 8th grade. College should be an advanced course in that skill. There are tens of thousands of libraries just in the U.S. and pretty much all of them have a lesser or greater amount of unique material. Google isn't going to go to every library and scan every item. I actually think that is the intent. They have already done Wiedner at Harvard, and much of Oxford in England, and once they deal with the large collections, they will be filling in. Ran into one of the visiting Google Firemen last week at Drinking Liberally, (The progressive version of Starbucks without the investment) and I reminded him of a very special 19th century Labor Library under the control of the County Library, and they will pick that up while they are in town. Apparently once they get through the big collections they plan on doing state and county historical societies. The Google guys are the Gutenberg-ers, the opposition are the highly skilled monks. The Monks who traced letters were underemployed. A few years ago I got interested in materials in the Ohio collections you mention -- my family were very early settlers in Dayton and I was trying to find out more about that place-time, but all the academic sources were not open to me. They should be universal. The whole point of the internet is universal access. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. From bobabramspe at webtv.net Fri Jun 8 18:06:53 2007 From: bobabramspe at webtv.net (Robert Abrams) Date: Fri Jun 8 18:19:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fw: Retention of Students Message-ID: I sent this to the wrong address. AVE ATQUE VALE (Hail and farewell-the gladiator's salutation) -----Original Message----- From: Robert Abrams Sent: Friday, June 8, 2007 5:59 PM To: alumni-chat@lists.antioch-college.edu Subject: Retention of Students After a lengthy Google search of YS News articles I found the one dated 3/8/07 entitled "Antioch cuts VP, Dean of Students and 8 others." This contains the dismal statistics of student retention in '05 & '06. In '05 an entering class of 63 dwindled to 30. Of 120 who entered in fall of '06, 25% left in 6 months. This brang total enrollment to 325. If you would like to read the entire article, email me at bobabramspe@webtv.net and I will gladly forward it to you. It appears to me that Antioch is teetering on the edge of oblivion, but, I am by nature a pessimist. AVE ATQUE VALE (Hail and farewell-the gladiator's salutation) From patrick_abroad at yahoo.com Fri Jun 8 20:17:22 2007 From: patrick_abroad at yahoo.com (Patrick Cates) Date: Fri Jun 8 20:29:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] google books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <726849.47797.qm@web83001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Sistersara@aol.com wrote: > According to recent NYTimes articles ... apparently Google > has acquired rights to > stuff beyond 1923 from several major publishers ... > google has a search for book for purchase button, > (used or new) or is soon > to make one, and publishers have discovered that > they are really selling back > lists and all because segments are up on Google ... All this is true, but Sara's changing the terms here. We've gone from 'anybody can get anything for free' to 'a great new marketing tool for publishers.' Anyhow, it is still only a relatively small number of publishers (I counted a few dozen out of thousands) and it ain't free. I said: > Google isn't going to go to every > library and scan every item. To which Sara replied: > I actually think that is the intent. They have > already done Wiedner at > Harvard, and much of Oxford in England, and once > they deal with the large > collections, they will be filling in. Ran into one > of the visiting Google Firemen > last week at Drinking Liberally, (The progressive > version of Starbucks without > the investment) and I reminded him of a very special > 19th century Labor > Library under the control of the County Library, and > they will pick that up while > they are in town. Apparently once they get through > the big collections they > plan on doing state and county historical societies. No, they aren't. They say "We may expand our program to include special collections from libraries both in the U.S. and other countries. If you want to let us know about your library's special collection, please email us at books-support@google.com and include the size of your collection, specialization or unique content, how much of your content is already digital, and what languages it includes." Sure, they'll do a few dozen large mainly university libraries and a handfull of important research libraries and that is it. It's the law of diminishing returns. Go to Ohio State and you'll get 50 or 100 thousand unique items; at Greene County Public Library they might get 50 and the price per item will be 10 times as much. And that isn't even getting into the difficulty of determining what is or isn't unique; I could probably come up with 1000-2000 unique items at my library, but it would take years to find them all. Let's talk numbers. Between the 16 libraries working with Google, you probably have something on the order of 30,000,000 unique print items (if everything was being scanned which it isn't). As of 6/8/07 7:40pm est, OCLC has 84,975,679 items of which perhaps half are unique print items. The National Union Catalog recorded 13,000,000 print items; nearly 30% are not in OCLC. NUC covered only the U.S. and OCLC is mainly U.S. (many US. public libraries don't use OCLC, BTW) though other libraries are represented (mainly European) but their holdings are usually very incomplete. We're talking tens of millions of items. Google books will make a huge wealth of information readily available, but not everything. Gutenberg went bankrupt. Manuscript production may have petered out, but manuscript use did not. Just today, I helped a patron with manuscript of St. Jerome's Epistolae copied in the mid- to late-1470s; it isn't beautifully illuminated, it's just an average reading copy made after a half dozen printed editions of the same work. Libraries aren't dead yet. Patrick Cates 'mid- to late-1990s ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php From robinsimons at yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 16:08:17 2007 From: robinsimons at yahoo.com (Robin Simons) Date: Tue Jun 12 16:20:27 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ In-Reply-To: <726849.47797.qm@web83001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <681836.30013.qm@web31614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Antioch College Community Steven Lawry, President June 12, 2007 It is my sad duty to inform you that the Antioch University Board of Trustees decided on June 9th, 2007, that Antioch College would be closed from July 1st, 2008. The decision was taken in light of the College?s very fragile financial circumstances, resulting from low enrollments and insufficient funding from other sources, including endowment income and gifts. In making this decision, the Board declared the College to be in a state of financial exigency, which enables the administration to bring the operations of the College to an orderly conclusion by July 1st next year. The University will begin to plan for the eventual possible reopening of the College by 2012. The new Antioch College would, if sufficient financial support is secured, have up-to-date facilities and a curriculum strongly attractive to larger number of students and based on Antioch?s traditional educational values. The College will operate normally over the course of the coming academic year, with a view to graduating as many members of the fourth-year class as possible, and to ensuring the academic progress of first, second and third year students. Arrangements will be made to help qualified students complete their degrees at McGregor or at other campuses in the Antioch University system. We will do all that we can to help students transfer to other schools that they might wish to attend. Faculty contracts will end from July 1st, 2008. The College will be retaining over the course of the coming year staff members necessary to ensure the College?s effective operations, being mindful that as programs and operations wind down over the coming months, appropriate staff reductions will be made. The Dean of Faculty will be convening urgent meetings of the Curriculum Committee to plan academic support for students in the coming year. I have already met with our Community Managers and they will have key leadership roles to play in helping sustain a rich and rewarding campus life over the coming year. Our staff in Human Resources will be distributing information on personal counseling resources available through the College?s Employee Assistance Program. Other forms of assistance to help faculty and staff manage their professional transitions are being looked into, and I hope to report back to you very soon. I appreciate your hard work and commitment to Antioch College over the years. This is a vitally important institution. I am deeply distressed to have to share this news with you. Current Mood: depressed ____________________________________________________________________________________ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz From Christopher.Adams at jefferson.edu Tue Jun 12 16:23:41 2007 From: Christopher.Adams at jefferson.edu (Christopher Adams) Date: Tue Jun 12 16:35:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ In-Reply-To: <681836.30013.qm@web31614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <726849.47797.qm@web83001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20070612161822.0343c418@imap.jefferson.edu> This is appalling, Does anyone else know anything else? How long has this been in the works? How much cash is the difference between staying open and closing? To reopen in 2012, the college would have to hire a whole new faculty, recruit an entire class without any upperclasses, and that is without the money needed to build the supposed "state of the art" campus. If it closes, it may be gone forever. Can this be reversed? At 01:08 PM 6/12/2007 -0700, you wrote: >Antioch College Community >Steven Lawry, >President >June 12, 2007 > > >It is my sad duty to inform you that the Antioch >University Board of Trustees decided on June 9th, >2007, that Antioch College would be closed from July >1st, 2008. The decision was taken in light of the >College's very fragile financial circumstances, >resulting from low enrollments and insufficient >funding from other sources, including endowment income >and gifts. In making this decision, the Board >declared the College to be in a state of financial >exigency, which enables the administration to bring >the operations of the College to an orderly conclusion >by July 1st next year. > >The University will begin to plan for the eventual >possible reopening of the College by 2012. The new >Antioch College would, if sufficient financial support >is secured, have up-to-date facilities and a >curriculum strongly attractive to larger number of >students and based on Antioch's traditional >educational values. > >The College will operate normally over the course of >the coming academic year, with a view to graduating as >many members of the fourth-year class as possible, and >to ensuring the academic progress of first, second and >third year students. Arrangements will be made to >help qualified students complete their degrees at >McGregor or at other campuses in the Antioch >University system. We will do all that we can to >help students transfer to other schools that they >might wish to attend. > >Faculty contracts will end from July 1st, 2008. The >College will be retaining over the course of the >coming year staff members necessary to ensure the >College's effective operations, being mindful that as >programs and operations wind down over the coming >months, appropriate staff reductions will be made. > >The Dean of Faculty will be convening urgent meetings >of the Curriculum Committee to plan academic support >for students in the coming year. I have already met >with our Community Managers and they will have key >leadership roles to play in helping sustain a rich and >rewarding campus life over the coming year. > >Our staff in Human Resources will be distributing >information on personal counseling resources available >through the College's Employee Assistance Program. >Other forms of assistance to help faculty and staff >manage their professional transitions are being looked >into, and I hope to report back to you very soon. > >I appreciate your hard work and commitment to Antioch >College over the years. This is a vitally important >institution. I am deeply distressed to have to share >this news with you. >Current Mood: depressed > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Got a little couch potato? >Check out fun summer activities for kids. >http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Christopher S. Adams, Ph.D Department of Orthopaedic Surgery Room 501 1015 Walnut St. Philadelphia, PA 19107 Phone: 1-215-955-8754 Fax: 1-215-955-9159 From danny.kirchoff at mail.law.cuny.edu Tue Jun 12 16:26:08 2007 From: danny.kirchoff at mail.law.cuny.edu (Danny Kirchoff) Date: Tue Jun 12 16:36:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ In-Reply-To: <681836.30013.qm@web31614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <681836.30013.qm@web31614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It's true, I called and asked the alumni office. She said that it is hard to find on the website, but that there is info on the home page. - Danny K '00 On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Robin Simons wrote: > > Antioch College Community > Steven Lawry, > President > June 12, 2007 > > > It is my sad duty to inform you that the Antioch > University Board of Trustees decided on June 9th, > 2007, that Antioch College would be closed from July > 1st, 2008. The decision was taken in light of the > College?s very fragile financial circumstances, > resulting from low enrollments and insufficient > funding from other sources, including endowment income > and gifts. In making this decision, the Board > declared the College to be in a state of financial > exigency, which enables the administration to bring > the operations of the College to an orderly conclusion > by July 1st next year. > > The University will begin to plan for the eventual > possible reopening of the College by 2012. The new > Antioch College would, if sufficient financial support > is secured, have up-to-date facilities and a > curriculum strongly attractive to larger number of > students and based on Antioch?s traditional > educational values. > > The College will operate normally over the course of > the coming academic year, with a view to graduating as > many members of the fourth-year class as possible, and > to ensuring the academic progress of first, second and > third year students. Arrangements will be made to > help qualified students complete their degrees at > McGregor or at other campuses in the Antioch > University system. We will do all that we can to > help students transfer to other schools that they > might wish to attend. > >Faculty contracts will end from July 1st, 2008. The > College will be retaining over the course of the > coming year staff members necessary to ensure the > College?s effective operations, being mindful that as > programs and operations wind down over the coming > months, appropriate staff reductions will be made. > > The Dean of Faculty will be convening urgent meetings > of the Curriculum Committee to plan academic support > for students in the coming year. I have already met > with our Community Managers and they will have key > leadership roles to play in helping sustain a rich and > rewarding campus life over the coming year. > > Our staff in Human Resources will be distributing > information on personal counseling resources available > through the College?s Employee Assistance Program. > Other forms of assistance to help faculty and staff > manage their professional transitions are being looked > into, and I hope to report back to you very soon. > > I appreciate your hard work and commitment to Antioch > College over the years. This is a vitally important > institution. I am deeply distressed to have to share > this news with you. > Current Mood: depressed > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. > http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat From skooter3 at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 16:25:07 2007 From: skooter3 at gmail.com (Christian Skotte) Date: Tue Jun 12 16:37:18 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20070612161822.0343c418@imap.jefferson.edu> References: <726849.47797.qm@web83001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <681836.30013.qm@web31614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20070612161822.0343c418@imap.jefferson.edu> Message-ID: I can't believe what I'm hearing. From it just goes to show how piss poor the communication is with the alumni. Why weren't we told any of this? Skooter '01 On 6/12/07, Christopher Adams wrote: > > This is appalling, Does anyone else know anything else? How long has this > been in the works? How much cash is the difference between staying open > and closing? > To reopen in 2012, the college would have to hire a whole new faculty, > recruit an entire class without any upperclasses, and that is without > the money needed to build the supposed "state of the art" campus. If it > closes, it may be gone forever. > Can this be reversed? > At 01:08 PM 6/12/2007 -0700, you wrote: > > >Antioch College Community > >Steven Lawry, > >President > >June 12, 2007 > > > > > >It is my sad duty to inform you that the Antioch > >University Board of Trustees decided on June 9th, > >2007, that Antioch College would be closed from July > >1st, 2008. The decision was taken in light of the > >College's very fragile financial circumstances, > >resulting from low enrollments and insufficient > >funding from other sources, including endowment income > >and gifts. In making this decision, the Board > >declared the College to be in a state of financial > >exigency, which enables the administration to bring > >the operations of the College to an orderly conclusion > >by July 1st next year. > > > >The University will begin to plan for the eventual > >possible reopening of the College by 2012. The new > >Antioch College would, if sufficient financial support > >is secured, have up-to-date facilities and a > >curriculum strongly attractive to larger number of > >students and based on Antioch's traditional > >educational values. > > > >The College will operate normally over the course of > >the coming academic year, with a view to graduating as > >many members of the fourth-year class as possible, and > >to ensuring the academic progress of first, second and > >third year students. Arrangements will be made to > >help qualified students complete their degrees at > >McGregor or at other campuses in the Antioch > >University system. We will do all that we can to > >help students transfer to other schools that they > >might wish to attend. > > > >Faculty contracts will end from July 1st, 2008. The > >College will be retaining over the course of the > >coming year staff members necessary to ensure the > >College's effective operations, being mindful that as > >programs and operations wind down over the coming > >months, appropriate staff reductions will be made. > > > >The Dean of Faculty will be convening urgent meetings > >of the Curriculum Committee to plan academic support > >for students in the coming year. I have already met > >with our Community Managers and they will have key > >leadership roles to play in helping sustain a rich and > >rewarding campus life over the coming year. > > > >Our staff in Human Resources will be distributing > >information on personal counseling resources available > >through the College's Employee Assistance Program. > >Other forms of assistance to help faculty and staff > >manage their professional transitions are being looked > >into, and I hope to report back to you very soon. > > > >I appreciate your hard work and commitment to Antioch > >College over the years. This is a vitally important > >institution. I am deeply distressed to have to share > >this news with you. > >Current Mood: depressed > > > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ > >Got a little couch potato? > >Check out fun summer activities for kids. > > > http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Alumni-chat mailing list > >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > > Christopher S. Adams, Ph.D > Department of Orthopaedic Surgery > Room 501 > 1015 Walnut St. > Philadelphia, PA 19107 > > Phone: 1-215-955-8754 > Fax: 1-215-955-9159 > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > From marnoldtk at yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 16:43:55 2007 From: marnoldtk at yahoo.com (Matthew Arnold) Date: Tue Jun 12 16:56:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ Message-ID: <94557.48665.qm@web53411.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yeah, there's a story up on the Dayton Daily News website -- next to an ad for Antioch McGregor. Sigh. I'd post the text, but they have some annoying Webform you have to fill out, and I'm too distraught to tell them all about my demographic profile. I feel like I've just lost my second mother. ----- Original Message ---- From: Danny Kirchoff To: Alumni Chat List Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:26:08 PM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ It's true, I called and asked the alumni office. She said that it is hard to find on the website, but that there is info on the home page. - Danny K '00 On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Robin Simons wrote: > > Antioch College Community > Steven Lawry, > President > June 12, 2007 > > > It is my sad duty to inform you that the Antioch > University Board of Trustees decided on June 9th, > 2007, that Antioch College would be closed from July > 1st, 2008. The decision was taken in light of the > College?s very fragile financial circumstances, > resulting from low enrollments and insufficient > funding from other sources, including endowment income > and gifts. In making this decision, the Board > declared the College to be in a state of financial > exigency, which enables the administration to bring > the operations of the College to an orderly conclusion > by July 1st next year. > > The University will begin to plan for the eventual > possible reopening of the College by 2012. The new > Antioch College would, if sufficient financial support > is secured, have up-to-date facilities and a > curriculum strongly attractive to larger number of > students and based on Antioch?s traditional > educational values. > > The College will operate normally over the course of > the coming academic year, with a view to graduating as > many members of the fourth-year class as possible, and > to ensuring the academic progress of first, second and > third year students. Arrangements will be made to > help qualified students complete their degrees at > McGregor or at other campuses in the Antioch > University system. We will do all that we can to > help students transfer to other schools that they > might wish to attend. > >Faculty contracts will end from July 1st, 2008. The > College will be retaining over the course of the > coming year staff members necessary to ensure the > College?s effective operations, being mindful that as > programs and operations wind down over the coming > months, appropriate staff reductions will be made. > > The Dean of Faculty will be convening urgent meetings > of the Curriculum Committee to plan academic support > for students in the coming year. I have already met > with our Community Managers and they will have key > leadership roles to play in helping sustain a rich and > rewarding campus life over the coming year. > > Our staff in Human Resources will be distributing > information on personal counseling resources available > through the College?s Employee Assistance Program. > Other forms of assistance to help faculty and staff > manage their professional transitions are being looked > into, and I hope to report back to you very soon. > > I appreciate your hard work and commitment to Antioch > College over the years. This is a vitally important > institution. I am deeply distressed to have to share > this news with you. > Current Mood: depressed > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. > http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 From patrick_abroad at yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 16:48:05 2007 From: patrick_abroad at yahoo.com (Patrick Cates) Date: Tue Jun 12 17:00:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <76870.36250.qm@web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Why am I not surprised? The people in charge have been too busy living in fantasyland to actually, you know, fix the school. Hey Bob, looks like maybe you were the one who didn't know what he was talking about. Maybe I've been a Cassandra, but then, in the end, Cassandra was right. Patrick Cates '199who cares ____________________________________________________________________________________ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 From skooter3 at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 17:02:20 2007 From: skooter3 at gmail.com (Christian Skotte) Date: Tue Jun 12 17:14:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] NYC wake for Antioch Message-ID: So in true Antiochian fashion are we going to drink and complain and futiley wonder what we can do to change things that are outside of our control? I know I sure will. Williamsburg? Tonight? Skooter From bdevine at antioch-college.edu Tue Jun 12 17:12:06 2007 From: bdevine at antioch-college.edu (Robert Devine) Date: Tue Jun 12 17:24:08 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ In-Reply-To: <76870.36250.qm@web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <76870.36250.qm@web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Patrick, We get devastating news and your first response is to chortle through more ad hominem attacks...? Get a life, Patrick. Bob Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 at 4:48 PM -0500 wrote: >Why am I not surprised? The people in charge have >been too busy living in fantasyland to actually, you >know, fix the school. Hey Bob, looks like maybe you >were the one who didn't know what he was talking >about. Maybe I've been a Cassandra, but then, in the >end, Cassandra was right. > >Patrick Cates '199who cares > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels >in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. >http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Robert H. Devine College Professor Antioch College Yellow Springs, Ohio 45387 Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr From marnoldtk at yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 17:13:32 2007 From: marnoldtk at yahoo.com (Matthew Arnold) Date: Tue Jun 12 17:25:44 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ Message-ID: <47547.16379.qm@web53410.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Oh, fucking please, Patrick. I know it's un-Antiochian, but could we all just be civil to one another in this tragic time? Besides, I'm sure it's all Al Guskin's fault. ----- Original Message ---- From: Patrick Cates To: Alumni Chat List Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 4:48:05 PM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ Why am I not surprised? The people in charge have been too busy living in fantasyland to actually, you know, fix the school. Hey Bob, looks like maybe you were the one who didn't know what he was talking about. Maybe I've been a Cassandra, but then, in the end, Cassandra was right. Patrick Cates '199who cares ____________________________________________________________________________________ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From mark at mekaminski.com Tue Jun 12 17:20:51 2007 From: mark at mekaminski.com (mark@mekaminski.com) Date: Tue Jun 12 17:32:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ In-Reply-To: References: <76870.36250.qm@web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1138686520-1181683224-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1803686513-@bxe038.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Agreed Bob - there is plenty of blame for all in this but now is not the time. We should be reaching out to help the people affected by this - the institution is not the issue at the moment. Mark Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Robert Devine" Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:12:06 To:"Alumni Chat List" Cc:"Alumni Chat List" Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ Patrick, We get devastating news and your first response is to chortle through more ad hominem attacks...? Get a life, Patrick. Bob Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 at 4:48 PM -0500 wrote: >Why am I not surprised? The people in charge have >been too busy living in fantasyland to actually, you >know, fix the school. Hey Bob, looks like maybe you >were the one who didn't know what he was talking >about. Maybe I've been a Cassandra, but then, in the >end, Cassandra was right. > >Patrick Cates '199who cares > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels >in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. >http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Robert H. Devine College Professor Antioch College Yellow Springs, Ohio 45387 Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat From robinsimons at yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 17:22:12 2007 From: robinsimons at yahoo.com (Robin Simons) Date: Tue Jun 12 17:34:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] kinda pissed though In-Reply-To: <47547.16379.qm@web53410.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <915812.87005.qm@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> that they told the DAYTON DAILY NEWS before they told the alums. Robin ____________________________________________________________________________________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting From duffy at antioch-college.edu Tue Jun 12 17:48:33 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Tue Jun 12 18:00:35 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] kinda pissed though In-Reply-To: <915812.87005.qm@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <915812.87005.qm@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This is Duffy.....40 year community member, sixth and final year on the Alumni Board. Hoping the word "final" can be replaced with something better and sooner. So many of us have sweated blood and tears for years to make the best of this community even when outside support was hardly enough. Many of us went through payless paydays and we made it.....Now the baby seems to be going out with bath water. In spite of what many folks perceive I know from everyday working at the library how good we are as a whole.. Wonderful students and faculty...at times blissfully out of sync with the "real" world. The planet is a better place for the river of folks that have passed through those old towers in YS.....from way back to just this past graduation. Clothing and adornments change but throughout the forty years I have been here...the collective heart-beat has been almost a universal constant. A hectic dysfunctional oasis in an even more hectic and dysfunctional world. I am hoping enough folks will get busy to help .......maybe change future history. I think the University set-up and alumni alienation have taken its toll. (Although I would never rule out a miracle) I keep thinking of a James Thurber cartoon I would love to find again.....of a man with a whip standing over a dog...and the caption was "Damn dog died". How about a want-ad? Wanted..enough people to fix beautiful campus in midwest with awesome legacy..and potential. I Just read the Dayton Daily News Website..indeed there is a big McGregor banner as an ad...and then below the story about our plight. So beaten up for so long.......by ourselves especially. Reunion is next week...... there are 250 folks coming......y'all come if y'can.....it may be interesting. And if the grammar is not up to everyon'e specs....I am really just chatting...... Logging out for now.... Many, many folks are stunned and grieving. HELP WANTED BTW There is also a comment board following the DDN story....I had to laugh a little. It reminded me of oour own chatlist. Many opionions and sniping. From dshenry at email.unc.edu Tue Jun 12 17:52:17 2007 From: dshenry at email.unc.edu (Derek Henry) Date: Tue Jun 12 18:06:13 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dayton Daily Article In-Reply-To: <915812.87005.qm@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <915812.87005.qm@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <466F1591.6040002@email.unc.edu> Here is the Dayton Daily Article for those unwilling to get around the demographic form. Antioch College will suspend operations By Stephanie Irwin Staff Writer Tuesday, June 12, 2007 YELLOW SPRINGS --- Antioch College will suspend its operations on July 1, 2008, citing a lack of financial resources and declining enrollment. "After careful analysis the (Antioch University Board of Trustees) determined that the College's resources are inadequate to continue providing a quality education for its students beyond July 1, 2008," the college said in a statement Tuesday. Antioch intends to reopen in a "state-of-the-art campus" in 2012, the statement said. The college, which serves approximately 400 undergraduate students, will continue to serve current and newly accepted students during the 2007-08 academic year. During the 2008-09 academic year, all students will be offered a chance to finish their degrees at Antioch University McGregor, an adult education program separate from the college and also located in Yellow Springs. Students can also transfer to other institutions under the national Antioch University umbrella in Seattle, Los Angeles and Santa Barbara. Contact this reporter at (937) 225-7404 or sirwin@DaytonDailyNews.com. From thebangaloreblue at yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 18:37:37 2007 From: thebangaloreblue at yahoo.com (TheBangaloreBlue) Date: Tue Jun 12 18:49:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] what the hell is going on? Message-ID: <303031.18130.qm@web55309.mail.re4.yahoo.com> WOW Antioch is closing? While 0.03% of me is not suprised, I am still SHOCKED. Whats going to happen? I feel a little sick. WHY?????????????????? --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. From robert.schrott at lexisnexis.com Tue Jun 12 19:12:51 2007 From: robert.schrott at lexisnexis.com (Schrott, Robert R. (LNG-HBE)) Date: Tue Jun 12 19:25:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] kinda pissed though Message-ID: Duffy, As a long-time admirer of you and and your enthusiasm for Antioch, the library and every student who passed through either (hopefully both), I want to thank you for all you have done to make Antioch an always memorable - and often great u experience. I hope during such a difficult time that you know how much so many of us appreciate you and everything you have done for Antioch(ians). Best regards. Bobby Schrott Market/Industry Intelligence LexisNexis 202 309 7871 / 917 860 8166 ----- Original Message ----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu To: Alumni Chat List Cc: Alumni Chat List Sent: Tue Jun 12 17:48:33 2007 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] kinda pissed though This is Duffy.....40 year community member, sixth and final year on the Alumni Board. Hoping the word "final" can be replaced with something better and sooner. So many of us have sweated blood and tears for years to make the best of this community even when outside support was hardly enough. Many of us went through payless paydays and we made it.....Now the baby seems to be going out with bath water. In spite of what many folks perceive I know from everyday working at the library how good we are as a whole.. Wonderful students and faculty...at times blissfully out of sync with the "real" world. The planet is a better place for the river of folks that have passed through those old towers in YS.....from way back to just this past graduation. Clothing and adornments change but throughout the forty years I have been here...the collective heart-beat has been almost a universal constant. A hectic dysfunctional oasis in an even more hectic and dysfunctional world. I am hoping enough folks will get busy to help .......maybe change future history. I think the University set-up and alumni alienation have taken its toll. (Although I would never rule out a miracle) I keep thinking of a James Thurber cartoon I would love to find again.....of a man with a whip standing over a dog...and the caption was "Damn dog died". How about a want-ad? Wanted..enough people to fix beautiful campus in midwest with awesome legacy..and potential. I Just read the Dayton Daily News Website..indeed there is a big McGregor banner as an ad...and then below the story about our plight. So beaten up for so long.......by ourselves especially. Reunion is next week...... there are 250 folks coming......y'all come if y'can.....it may be interesting. And if the grammar is not up to everyon'e specs....I am really just chatting...... Logging out for now.... Many, many folks are stunned and grieving. HELP WANTED BTW There is also a comment board following the DDN story....I had to laugh a little. It reminded me of oour own chatlist. Many opionions and sniping. _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat From thebangaloreblue at yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 19:36:36 2007 From: thebangaloreblue at yahoo.com (TheBangaloreBlue) Date: Tue Jun 12 19:48:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] What role does RACISM, HOMOPHOBIA, & SEXISM have in Antioch's "closing" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <769645.18127.qm@web55306.mail.re4.yahoo.com> My mind is still reeling. Did the "THE MAN" not want us to continue? Were "non-queers" offended by glbtqiata forming a strong community? Do non-womyn fear different views and beliefs in gender? We need to have a meeting and talk about this. We need to find a way to keep us open. This is insane. I am getting tons of emails from current students who are panicing. I think the incoming class will seriously be 3 students. We should have seen this coming when McG announced plans to move off-campus. FIGHT THIS. REFUSE TO ACCEPT THIS. "Schrott, Robert R. (LNG-HBE)" wrote: Duffy, As a long-time admirer of you and and your enthusiasm for Antioch, the library and every student who passed through either (hopefully both), I want to thank you for all you have done to make Antioch an always memorable - and often great u experience. I hope during such a difficult time that you know how much so many of us appreciate you and everything you have done for Antioch(ians). Best regards. Bobby Schrott Market/Industry Intelligence LexisNexis 202 309 7871 / 917 860 8166 ----- Original Message ----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu To: Alumni Chat List Cc: Alumni Chat List Sent: Tue Jun 12 17:48:33 2007 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] kinda pissed though This is Duffy.....40 year community member, sixth and final year on the Alumni Board. Hoping the word "final" can be replaced with something better and sooner. So many of us have sweated blood and tears for years to make the best of this community even when outside support was hardly enough. Many of us went through payless paydays and we made it.....Now the baby seems to be going out with bath water. In spite of what many folks perceive I know from everyday working at the library how good we are as a whole.. Wonderful students and faculty...at times blissfully out of sync with the "real" world. The planet is a better place for the river of folks that have passed through those old towers in YS.....from way back to just this past graduation. Clothing and adornments change but throughout the forty years I have been here...the collective heart-beat has been almost a universal constant. A hectic dysfunctional oasis in an even more hectic and dysfunctional world. I am hoping enough folks will get busy to help .......maybe change future history. I think the University set-up and alumni alienation have taken its toll. (Although I would never rule out a miracle) I keep thinking of a James Thurber cartoon I would love to find again.....of a man with a whip standing over a dog...and the caption was "Damn dog died". How about a want-ad? Wanted..enough people to fix beautiful campus in midwest with awesome legacy..and potential. I Just read the Dayton Daily News Website..indeed there is a big McGregor banner as an ad...and then below the story about our plight. So beaten up for so long.......by ourselves especially. Reunion is next week...... there are 250 folks coming......y'all come if y'can.....it may be interesting. And if the grammar is not up to everyon'e specs....I am really just chatting...... Logging out for now.... Many, many folks are stunned and grieving. HELP WANTED BTW There is also a comment board following the DDN story....I had to laugh a little. It reminded me of oour own chatlist. Many opionions and sniping. _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From lophelan at yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 20:32:13 2007 From: lophelan at yahoo.com (Laura Phelan) Date: Tue Jun 12 20:44:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] no way Message-ID: <982130.29442.qm@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > > I say no way!!! This cannot happen. I agree with > all > stated. How dare the Board of Trustees do this > without notifying us and giving us an opportunity to > be part of a solution. And to tell the newspaper > before telling us? That's pure bullshit! > > Anyway, I say we do something about this. I know > Antiochians love to commiserate, but this calls for > action - a real revolution. This is crazy. > > I believe that the value of Antioch is in the > undergrad program. This is where we shape the > future. > This is where people become who they are. I know I > wouldn't be half the person I am today if it weren't > for Antioch College and I refuse to let it go > without > a fight - not for myself, but for the many > brilliant, > active, alternative, outcast minds that have yet to > be > influenced by an Antioch education. > > I think we need to act. If Antioch has enough to > maintain the rest of the university, it has enough > to > keep the College open - even if it means closing the > satelite campuses, shutting down the graduate > programs, to improve and maintain and keep open the > college. > > I suggest the following. We just received the new, > updated version of the Antioch Alumni guide, which > lists alum in all 50 states and DC. We need to > unite. > We have 13 months to stop this from happening and I > believe the sooner we get active the more > opportunity > we have to make a difference. Please consider this: > > 1. Every state needs to organize it's alum and meet > asap to talk and develop a proposed strategy. In > these meetings, we should all elect a state > representative. > 2. We convene a national meeting with all state > representatives to develop a final strategic plan. > 3. We enact the plan - whatever that may turn out > to > be - picketting the homes of the Board of Trustees, > mass civil disobediance on campus (chaining > ourselves > to buildings or something of the sort), etc... > > I don't think our time is well spent getting angry. > Let's do something! I can be reached at > lophelan@yahoo.com or you can call me at (860) > 873-3473. This is real! Time to take that Antioch > education and bring it right back to them! > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search > that gives answers, not web links. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 From ritch at antioch-college.edu Tue Jun 12 21:16:20 2007 From: ritch at antioch-college.edu (Richard Kerns) Date: Tue Jun 12 21:28:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: Alumni-chat Digest, Vol 4, Issue 5- SCHOOL CLOSING In-Reply-To: <20070612234849.3C300600AAAF@w3.antioch.edu> References: <20070612234849.3C300600AAAF@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: From: Patrick Cates Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alumni Chat List In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: Alumni Chat List Message-ID: <76870.36250.qm@web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ Message: 1 Why am I not surprised? The people in charge have been too busy living in fantasyland to actually, you know, fix the school. Hey Bob, looks like maybe you were the one who didn't know what he was talking about. Maybe I've been a Cassandra, but then, in the end, Cassandra was right. Patrick Cates '199who cares From: "Robert Devine" Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Alumni Chat List" To: "Alumni Chat List" References: <76870.36250.qm@web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <76870.36250.qm@web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:12:06 -0400 Reply-To: Alumni Chat List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] SCHOOL CLOSING- is this true? found on LJ Message: 3 Patrick, We get devastating news and your first response is to chortle through more ad hominem attacks...? Get a life, Patrick. Bob I think this boy has a vision. He sat around a bunch of MBA's at table, talking about the "21st Century". New terms do not necessarily mean new concepts. Patrick, you have nailed a lot of things in the past week, and I thank you for that. In particular, your totally astute remarks concerning SisterSarah's comment about Google were pretty much right-on. It should serve as a big heads-up to those that are not aware of these things. There is a book called Books in the Digital Library. All someone would have to read is the lengthy introduction, where it essentially states, "don't underestimate the power of publishers." - any Librarian that has been through Foundations class should realize this. Intellectual property rights and freedom are a necessary part in any Democracy, and even though families have passed on and copyrights have gone by the wayside, publishers, in many cases, retain those copyrights. This is an especially volatile situation in an academic library environment, where scholarly journals have gone up in price exponentially over the past decade. There could be a trend where subjects experts decide to publish their own work on their own sites, under their own terms. This is very possible, and may change the financial landscape for academic and research libraries. There are no answers here, but it's definitely something any academic librarian should be looking at closely. Journal databases and ready-reference are where the digital world is heading. E-books? Another question to ask oneself...To me the concept of an E-book strikes me as very retro, and oh-so 1990's. It assumes everyone wants the same format. Unfortunately for the number-crunchers, there is a ?myth of obsolescence? of the monograph. Inculcated into our culture is the priority of the dollar over the priority of a patrons? needs. So much for an ?informed citizenry?. The good news is JK Rowling has another book coming out, and all those circ stats will level the playing field :) I don't think there is as much Democracy in this country as there is Capitalism. While it may be true that Google offers free services that are invaluable - I use it A LOT - I do think Google is not ethically obligated to fulfill a mission of enhancing the "public good", allowing "equal access to all", or even something as simple as "save the time of the reader." I find it heartening, and a tad ironic, that the Olive Kettering Library will continue to be "maintained" during the "transition" because of the consortial obligations the College has built with OPAL and OhioLINK. This is (I think wisely) because of the drastic price cuts for databases (and returnables for McGregor and PhD program students) that allow the other campuses to access OhioLINK materials. Joe was totally right about OhioLINK. No question about it, really. Personally, I think OhioLINK is going to have a "digital commons" as well. I think it may happen before the College closes, and maybe even before the E-P grant money is even in place. How's that for irony? I think everyone in the Antioch community should put the "something for nothing syndrome" behind them. It's not sustainable. And maybe Lowery isn't wrong- maybe no matter what we do, there is no sustainability. However, I would posit that coalition-building may be necessary here, on a simple activist level. Make it happen- don't make a production out of it. It's too late for PR. Richard Kerns, M.L.I.S. Olive Kettering Library Antioch College From sjr5 at nyu.edu Tue Jun 12 23:21:09 2007 From: sjr5 at nyu.edu (Sonia Jaffe Robbins) Date: Tue Jun 12 23:36:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] no way In-Reply-To: <982130.29442.qm@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <982130.29442.qm@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Seems to me alums have been arguing for this for many years, but the institution was not interested in hearing it. I'm stunned, too. I can't quite take it in. And I don't understand how the college can shut down next year and then have any possibility of reopening four years later. That sounds like a fantasy. > > I think we need to act. If Antioch has enough to >> maintain the rest of the university, it has enough >> to >> keep the College open - even if it means closing the >> satelite campuses, shutting down the graduate >> programs, to improve and maintain and keep open the > > college. >> -- Sonia Jaffe Robbins sjr5@nyu.edu srobbins@reedbusiness.com http://www.neww.org.pl http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting ******************* "If you do not let the tie run come to the plate, you can never lose." --Mark Harris, in one of the Southpaw novels From bdevine at antioch-college.edu Wed Jun 13 01:10:46 2007 From: bdevine at antioch-college.edu (Robert Devine) Date: Wed Jun 13 01:22:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] no way In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Sonia, It stunned all of us at the College as well. We only learned this "plan" at 2pm this afternoon. No-one was involved in the decision-making other than University administrators and the Board of Trustees. The only College rep was the President who was trying to sell a merger with McGregor as a way to deal with the financial situation. No conversations, no consultation, no consideration of alternatives. As I understand it, the Trustees did not have a lot of time to consider this plan, did not have alternative plans on the table, did not consult with major donors (who might have helped close some of the fiscal gaps), the faculty, the Alumni Board, the students or the Village. Reading between the lines, it seems to me that the University, in consultation with a few Trustees, had decided on this course of action long before the Board meeting. The Trustees forced a "Renewal Plan" on the College several years ago, to move the College beyond "incremental growth". As Joe Cali would say, "The Idea Boys are working overtime...." They gave us five years to implement it, and promised the resources for the transition. The faculty worked their butts off, speeding up the implementation by a year. We're now two years into the plan, but the Board has not contributed nor raised the funds for this transition, so they're pulling the plug. The faculty did their part in attempting to implement what was essentially a bad plan, and did so with modest success. The Board failed in their stewardship role, and did not provide the 5-years of support for the transition. And so we have a Board that (a) rolled the dice with the College's legacy and all of our livelihoods in an "all or nothing" Renewal plan of dubious merit, (b) failed to support its own imposed plan or to raise sufficient money to implement it, and (c) seeing the results of the Plan in terms of recruitment and retention, precipitously decided that closing the College -- rather than raising additional funding, closing another campus, liquidating the endowment, merging the College & McGregor, etc. etc. -- was the only avenue to deal with the financial difficulties. The other notable dimension of this story is that since 1999 the University has been focused on usurping College resources, first by pursuing policy changes that made it impossible for the College to break even and then by framing the College as a constant financial problem in the minds of the Trustees. As a result, the Trustees have removed more and more autonomy and decision-making from the College President (while gutting the systems of shared governance), and have given the University more and more discretion for fiscal and programmatic control. The University has used that control to raid College resources and consolidate their hold on the College and its directions. A "reorganization" eliminated the College's own VP of Finance and Administration and HR and moved them across the street. Likewise, Technology Resources was dissolved on the College side of the street and the College is now served by an IT department that reports to the McGregor School. This latest move is a logical next step. The University will walk away with Glen Helen, AEA, the campus and all its buildings, the endowment and the brand, while getting rid of all those pesky, critical, and "toxic" students. As for re-opening in 2012, that's probably either a fantasy or a fig leaf. It's a nice thing to say when you're closing the doors and putting 160 people out of work, but my sense is that IF the College closes (and I'm optimistic enough to believe that is not yet a given if people rally support and press contacts and bring appropriate pressure to bear) it will be closing its doors for good. If the College could not raise money to keep its doors open, why would be believe that it could raise the sort of money required for a ground-up re-invention -- including a new high-tech physical plant????? If Antioch College re-opens, my prediction is that it will be a shallowly normed version of what the adult campuses are doing, NOT an institution that bears the legacy of the College. My 2 cents. Bob Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 at 11:21 PM -0500 wrote: >Seems to me alums have been arguing for this for many years, but the >institution was not interested in hearing it. > >I'm stunned, too. I can't quite take it in. And I don't understand >how the college can shut down next year and then have any possibility >of reopening four years later. That sounds like a fantasy. > >> > I think we need to act. If Antioch has enough to >>> maintain the rest of the university, it has enough >>> to >>> keep the College open - even if it means closing the >>> satelite campuses, shutting down the graduate >>> programs, to improve and maintain and keep open the >> > college. >>> > >-- >Sonia Jaffe Robbins >sjr5@nyu.edu srobbins@reedbusiness.com >http://www.neww.org.pl http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting > >******************* >"If you do not let the tie run come to the plate, you can never lose." >--Mark Harris, in one of the Southpaw novels >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Robert H. Devine College Professor Antioch College Yellow Springs, Ohio 45387 Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr From mark at mekaminski.com Wed Jun 13 01:33:02 2007 From: mark at mekaminski.com (Mark Swanholm) Date: Wed Jun 13 01:45:26 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] An elegy in 3 parts - The Sun, Venus and a Glass of Wine In-Reply-To: References: <982130.29442.qm@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If there is a common thread to the "Antioch thread" on this day it is loss. I had a full day of "very important" seeming meetings but at every chance I glanced at my blackberry - waiting for the next email on the chat to land and tell me it wasn't REALLY happening. But by the time I had retired for the day to the house I am staying at in California there was no denying that it was no hoax (although a bit of me holds out hope). So I filled my glass of wine and sat down and stared out the window. I couldn't cry for Antioch - it has been too convoluted a relationship to sooth so simply. So I just stared. Stared down the hillside into the Eucalyptus grove, strained to see the sea beyond (or painted it in with my hope). I fell after a while to tracking the slow progress of the dull orange sun as it moved, crept closer to its setting doom. It was bright but no longer brilliant, beautiful but not a guiding light. As it waned my sadness attached itself to the sun - bound in its flames to be drowned in the dark and cold pacific. How fitting of Antioch - it had been such a force, such a shining example such a guide for so many hopes - but it had reached out, moved out west and finally, after a slow dance it was about to be put out by that very ocean, leaving us, the hopeful and shepherded flock alone in the dark. It had been slowly consumed by the aching, grasping branches for some time before its fate - obscured and degraded - but the light still shown and we could still find our way by its glimmer. But I watched it go - it went down and out, never to return from that watery grave. And thus Antioch College dies. End Part 1 After the sun had set the sky slowly shifted hues. The pale blue summer day shifted in smooth slowness to the Indigo that portends the mystery of the night. There was no display of colors, no flash of brilliance hailing a glorious end - just a slow fade to black. At first the Eucalyptus that had hacked and torn the sun as it fell could still be seen - ominous beasts at the edge of the unknown welcoming comers to the underworld. Still I stared - hoping to fixate in my mind the spot - the EXACT SPOT - where our fair, transgendered one had fallen. It might have died quietly but a poet could sing the praises of its glory and speak the truth about where it lie, slumbering. But the tangles and angles were too oblique, to varied, to chaotic to fix in my mind - had the sun set there, or to the left, no farther down, just where? And then I dropped something. A very random act of little metaphysical significance. But as I bent down I looked UP. And I saw it. It had been hidden from my view in my comfortable chair - just up and out of the picture window. It was Venus. It was small and cold - but bright and noticeable. It was steady and it wasn't setting in the west. And some little voice spoke up and said YES, yes that - THAT is Antioch. It is a distant world boiling and opposite from all the you see around you, like and unlike the earth, bouncing through our night on an odd path, disappearing and reappearing. The goddess of love - and trickery. Yes, how could I have missed it. I wanted Antioch to be the SUN - but that was a distraction. I was attached to the wrong thing - Antioch was not the big fixed point - it was never something fixed in time and space on a path repeated day in and day out. It was the wanderer, of course. The sun might have looked like the college - but the essence is Venus. And thus Antioch never dies. End Part 2 Well, the Sun will go super nova at SOME point - but really the essence never dies even if Venus is burnt to a crisp. And as happens when you realize you have been solving the WRONG problem for too long the world opens up. You don't try to stop the sun from setting anymore - it has SET... so what - that is not what you REALLY care about. There are people that make their living in the day light - and you want to give them lanterns because they are your